Official Sony DMP-Z1 Thread
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purk

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Beautiful unit that's for sure.
 
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tenedosian

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that's what the PR said. I just talked with double Sato-san at the show, they both personally confirmed to me that this was not designed for portable use and my speculation was correct - the battery was completely for clean power, the side effect is of it being self powered. other nuggets I managed to get from Sato-san
1) he admitted that the use of a traditional DAC/amp chip is they wanted power which they couldn't achieve with the current S-Master, and he had to admit defeat here
2) the knob is milled out of a single block of OFC, and treated the same way as the 1Z thus the gold finish. thou they went with a mirror finish this time
3) all the new caps and condensers are going to trickle down to the next Walkman
4) there are indeed super capacitors build into the battery/power circuit, they just didn't mention it because "it's a matter of fact they are in there"
5) and of course they toyed with the traditional transformer, it was too big and won't fit in the chassis.
6) a lot of the components are hand soldered, also they used in house developed lead free solder formula that is mixed with gold.
7) the glass top was a designer decision to show off the internal and the gold knob, but it looked ugly when paired with the aluminium chassis, so they found a new way to treat the chassis so it resulted in a mirror finish just so that would look good under the glass, while not interfere with their chassis ground design

The DMP is a show off art piece and F1 machine to test new components and techniques blended together. So yeah it is off the balls crazy expensive. it's not worth buying for 99.9% of the users, but it's worth looking forward for the technology which will trickle down to the other product lines.

Very informative post, thanks Nanaholic.

About the third one, did you ask any questions of the possible successors to WM1, or did they say anything & give a time for replacement and possible arrival of WM2?
 
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bmichels

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A shame that there is no real LINE-Out and not a much bigger screen.

-> It will be a pain to browse through the potential 1.2 Tb music library through a tiny 3" screen !! ;-( . ;-(
 
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purk

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A shame that there is no real LINE-Out and not a much bigger screen.

-> It will be a pain to browse through the potential 1.2 Tb music library through a tiny 3" screen !! ;-( . ;-(
Agreed on the line out, they could have easily installed a mini XLR jack or even a female TRRS or Pentaconn jack.
 
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nanaholic

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I hope Sony will demo the DMP-Z1 side by side with the TA-ZH1ES with ZX300 as transport..so a direct comparison can be made.



They need to go back and study their heritage. The RK50 was used in the TA-ER1 in 1989.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-ER1.html

Couple of my amps have the RK50 and they are indeed is heavenly! Search Headroom Balanced Max and you will see that Headroom featured the RK50 in their maxed out version of their amp in 2006. Headamp.com also offer the RK50 in their BHSE too.
They were demoing TA-ZH1ES with WM1Z/1A as source next to the DMP-Z1. They weren't shy about inviting comparisons.

Again, it's that they personally haven't used it in their own products during development. Neither Sato-san are involved in TA products, their speciality and heritage is Walkman, and the DMP-Z1 is not a TA product and is not suppose to compete with the team next door. As said the knob wasn't even intended to be used as originally they were going for a digital volume control (and they did find that an analog pod in a Walkman doesn't make sense and they need a better digital volume control chip - so they still learn something!). This also leads to the question of why choosing opamps over discrete, battery over transformers - if the exercise here is to learn what they can then apply in a portable environment with the ultimate goal of making another WM1Z size device, but with bigger power output (one of the most requested feature from users apparently), then why would you play with transformers? You'll learn nothing useful there, so you play with batteries and new capacitors. Same with discrete amps, because the end goal would be building something around a (potential) new S-Master, so you'll be using IC chips. If you frame the view in this way, then their component choices makes a lot of sense in the DMP-Z1 - they are simply sticking to their own turf and territory, and playing with things that is useful to their future projects.

It seems that the entity of the DMP-Z1 is a giant learning experience for the Walkman team to see what they can then use to apply to a proper Walkman in order to better the WM1Z. It just happens that on the way they build some freak desktop device that seems to have overlapped with the TA amps, yet that really wasn't what they have ever intended.

Very informative post, thanks Nanaholic.

About the third one, did you ask any questions of the possible successors to WM1, or did they say anything & give a time for replacement and possible arrival of WM2?
I did, but I can't say anything about it. :wink:

But I think you can sort of piece together their road map from the stuff I've said so far...
 
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purk

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They were demoing TA-ZH1ES with WM1Z/1A as source next to the DMP-Z1. They weren't shy about inviting comparisons.

Again, it's that they personally haven't used it in their own products during development. Neither Sato-san are involved in TA products, their speciality and heritage is Walkman, and the DMP-Z1 is not a TA product and is not suppose to compete with the team next door. As said the knob wasn't even intended to be used as originally they were going for a digital volume control (and they did find that an analog pod in a Walkman doesn't make sense and they need a better digital volume control chip - so they still learn something!). This also leads to the question of why choosing opamps over discrete, battery over transformers - if the exercise here is to learn what they can then apply in a portable environment with the ultimate goal of making another WM1Z size device, but with bigger power output (one of the most requested feature from users apparently), then why would you play with transformers? You'll learn nothing useful there, so you play with batteries and new capacitors. Same with discrete amps, because the end goal would be building something around a (potential) new S-Master, so you'll be using IC chips. If you frame the view in this way, then their component choices makes a lot of sense in the DMP-Z1 - they are simply sticking to their own turf and territory, and playing with things that is useful to their future projects.

It seems that the entity of the DMP-Z1 is a giant learning experience for the Walkman team to see what they can then use to apply to a proper Walkman in order to better the WM1Z. It just happens that on the way they build some freak desktop device that seems to have overlapped with the TA amps, yet that really wasn't what they have ever intended.



I did, but I can't say anything about it. :wink:

But I think you can sort of piece together their road map from the stuff I've said so far...
Thanks for the explanation. I still don't quite get why they decide to charge so much for this "learning" of a product. You can learn quite easy by replacing the quad RK27 with RK50. What they should have done is to get ALP to bring back the quad RK40 and use it in this amp and reduce the price by 25%:wink:
 
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Kakki

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They know it by reputation, but they never used it in their own products nor has first hand experience in its effects, there's a difference. Everyone knows a decade ago Sony wasn't making any system that costs enough to justify having a 800 dollar knob on it and they keep making their stuff cheaper, in that sort of work environment I don't think you can get away with asking for the budget to test these things.
Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.

It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...

To me, this DMP-Z1 is just a one of generic DAP with usual cheap components and has no relation with Sony’s legacy nor DNA.

I used to be a big fan of Sony but am very sad to see that this kind of generic products are coming from Sony as their flagship.
 
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purk

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Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.

It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...

To me, this DMP-Z1 is just a one of generic DAP with usual cheap components and has no relation with Sony’s legacy nor DNA.

I used to be a big fan of Sony but am very sad to see that this kind of generic products are coming from Sony as their flagship.
And their team leader, Mr. Koji Nageno, was one of the original engineer on the R-series. He is the same engineer who verified the operation of each R10 before each shipment.
 
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6361B009-7B72-4D44-9C76-21A9B31B2249.jpeg
They were demoing TA-ZH1ES with WM1Z/1A as source next to the DMP-Z1. They weren't shy about inviting comparisons.

Again, it's that they personally haven't used it in their own products during development. Neither Sato-san are involved in TA products, their speciality and heritage is Walkman, and the DMP-Z1 is not a TA product and is not suppose to compete with the team next door. As said the knob wasn't even intended to be used as originally they were going for a digital volume control (and they did find that an analog pod in a Walkman doesn't make sense and they need a better digital volume control chip - so they still learn something!). This also leads to the question of why choosing opamps over discrete, battery over transformers - if the exercise here is to learn what they can then apply in a portable environment with the ultimate goal of making another WM1Z size device, but with bigger power output (one of the most requested feature from users apparently), then why would you play with transformers? You'll learn nothing useful there, so you play with batteries and new capacitors. Same with discrete amps, because the end goal would be building something around a (potential) new S-Master, so you'll be using IC chips. If you frame the view in this way, then their component choices makes a lot of sense in the DMP-Z1 - they are simply sticking to their own turf and territory, and playing with things that is useful to their future projects.

It seems that the entity of the DMP-Z1 is a giant learning experience for the Walkman team to see what they can then use to apply to a proper Walkman in order to better the WM1Z. It just happens that on the way they build some freak desktop device that seems to have overlapped with the TA amps, yet that really wasn't what they have ever intended.



I did, but I can't say anything about it. :wink:

But I think you can sort of piece together their road map from the stuff I've said so far...
Such a great post.

Thank-you.


I wonder if they are dreaming of a miniaturized DMP-Z1 someday.

It has a mad scientist quality to it; a Frankenstein quality.
 
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I think Sony will release an app like AK connect to allow for an easier navigation as that screen is simply not large enough to navigate potentially 1 TB of music file (256 GB internal plus two 512 GB microSD).
Back on the unit, I hate the part of myself who is even thinking about placing a deposit on this unit. I have always been a guy into portable audio, I never liked the idea of setting behind my desk, it reminds me too much of work, and as a result even at home I try to stay away from my table, I know this is not a psychology forum!

I actually can see myself using a device like this, but at the current conversion rate, 13000 AUD, I can purchase a second hand chord Dave!
 
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Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.

It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...

To me, this DMP-Z1 is just a one of generic DAP with usual cheap components and has no relation with Sony’s legacy nor DNA.

I used to be a big fan of Sony but am very sad to see that this kind of generic products are coming from Sony as their flagship.
This is objectively false if you look at what else is in the DMP-Z1 outside of the DAC/AMP chip that everyone is so fixated on.

What about the completely new FT-caps and OS-cons they co-developed? The new solder formula? New chassis technique? The batteries? Remember all these things plays a critical part in all the Walkmans since the ZX1 thus far and is crucial to improvements in each generation. They admitted their S-Master is currently not up to standard and is working on it, but instead of sitting on their rear it didn't stop them from improving all the other parts in the system which could potentially have a positive effect and testing out those effects in a show-off piece of what they have learned. This whole "boo-hoo it's an AKM DAC chip and TI opamp what nonsense Sony is playing everyone a fool" is objectively unfair to the Walkman team if you look at the whole picture, instead of focusing on a couple of trees in the forest.
 
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Sony had been using RK50 for many of their R-series which were true innovative and groundbreaking products with full of unique technologies that Sony invented by their own.

It’s a shame of Sony not inheritating their traditions and forgetting what they had been doing...

To me, this DMP-Z1 is just a one of generic DAP with usual cheap components and has no relation with Sony’s legacy nor DNA.

I used to be a big fan of Sony but am very sad to see that this kind of generic products are coming from Sony as their flagship.
This is another true Sony lover who is speaking :). I am glad to see so. I honestly am tired of the way of the (because it sound good) market. Sad to see Sony is doing the same thing but with a lot of excuses
 
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I can absolutely go buy one and.......... I figure I’ll be buying the Z1R IEMs.......but I’m currently having a custom table made for the TA amp.


I have no use for the DMP-Z1!

I know this doesn’t sound too audiophile but..... I guess I don’t even care if it sounds 20% better than the TA. I realize it’s a statement product and more like what a race car is to auto manufactures. Just call me blue collar? I’d probably pay $2999 on the used market just to fondle it....lol?

Frankly I don’t care how it sounds. Though that gold bling volume knob is the cat’s meow.
 
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This is another true Sony lover who is speaking :). I am glad to see so. I honestly am tired of the way of the (because it sound good) market. Sad to see Sony is doing the same thing but with a lot of excuses
Isn't that the point of developing products that they sound good, irrespective of the combination of parts / technologies etc. I totally agree that price on DMP is way out of whack but the exercise may not be. If anything out of this effort leeks into new products down the road for better sound, I am all for it while fully acknowledging that DMP is not something I am remotely interested in (at current prices).
In my opinion, Sony will not sell many units of DMP and the prices will remain high but they will bring something more sensible (pricing / feature wise) which may become a great DAP / DAC / AMP combo..
 
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