[DjBobby]

  Unless you can switch back and forth within a few seconds (less than about 4) and have the volumes carefully matched you will not be able to do an accurate comaprison due to:
1) The limitations of Human Echoic Memory.
2) Equal Loudness Contours/Fletcher-Munson.
Both are human conditions.

1) Bought for that exact reason one 4port switch, where I can quickly switch between 4 sources, both ways.
2) Made loudness EQ, by playing tone generator waveforms (sine, square, sawtooth and triangle) to Audacity, input signals being meticulously matched.
 
Will spent next days with some testing, trying to avoid at least two of human conditions traps you've listed.

 

[StanD]

 
1) Bought for that exact reason one 4port switch, where I can quickly switch between 4 sources, both ways.
2) Made loudness EQ, by playing tone generator waveforms (sine, square, sawtooth and triangle) to Audacity, input signals being meticulously matched.
 
Will spent next days with some testing, trying to avoid at least two of human conditions traps you've listed.

I would imagine replaying a loop of familiar music might be the best as it is a more complex waveform. The only way to factor out expectation is to have another person switch things so that you have no idea of which kit you are listening to.

 

[DjBobby]

  I would imagine replaying a loop of familiar music might be the best as it is a more complex waveform. The only way to factor out expectation is to have another person switch things so that you have no idea of which kit you are listening to.

That's a great idea. Only the closest person coming in question for the switching job, might not be so enthusiastic about my experiment, fearing possible further purchases resulting from it  

. So, I need to carefully search for a selfless and neutral source switcher. 

 

[StanD]

 
That's a great idea. Only the closest person coming in question for the switching job, might not be so enthusiastic about my experiment, fearing possible further purchases resulting from it  

. So, I need to carefully search for a selfless and neutral source switcher. 

Yes, you may not wish to engage "She who must be obeyed" in such activities.

 

[Krutsch]

Quick question: I ordered a Modi 2 Uber to pair with a Wyrd for my Mac Mini in my 2-channel speaker system.
 
I notice that the Modi 2 Uber comes with a 16vac adapter. Do you still need to use this, if you are only using USB input (i.e. will it power from the USB input, if connected)?
 
Corollary: assuming the 16vac adapter *is* required for USB input, is there still value in running the USB through the Wyrd?
 
Thanks, in advance, for any firsthand impressions or opinions.

 

[RickB]

  Quick question: I ordered a Modi 2 Uber to pair with a Wyrd for my Mac Mini in my 2-channel speaker system.
 
I notice that the Modi 2 Uber comes with a 16vac adapter. Do you still need to use this, if you are only using USB input (i.e. will it power from the USB input, if connected)?
 
Corollary: assuming the 16vac adapter *is* required for USB input, is there still value in running the USB through the Wyrd?
 
Thanks, in advance, for any firsthand impressions or opinions.

 
You still need the AC adapter to use the Modi2U, it won't work without it.
 
IMO, the Wyrd makes a positive difference to the Modi2U. It makes the the sound smoother and more open.

 

[bixby]

  Quick question: I ordered a Modi 2 Uber to pair with a Wyrd for my Mac Mini in my 2-channel speaker system.
 
I notice that the Modi 2 Uber comes with a 16vac adapter. Do you still need to use this, if you are only using USB input (i.e. will it power from the USB input, if connected)?
 
Corollary: assuming the 16vac adapter *is* required for USB input, is there still value in running the USB through the Wyrd?
 
Thanks, in advance, for any firsthand impressions or opinions.

I had a modi 2 uber briefly and used it with a wyrd.  I never tried it without the adapter. Did it sound different with the Wyrd, YES.  Better..........hmmm.............you decide.
 
I can say the wyrd with my hrt dac caused highs to sound compressed and squashed.
 
I may try the modi 2 uber again when it gets the next gen akm chip upgrade.

 

[bgentry]

Unless you can switch back and forth within a few seconds (less than about 4) and have the volumes carefully matched you will not be able to do an accurate comaprison due to:
1) The limitations of Human Echoic Memory.
2) Equal Loudness Contours/Fletcher-Munson.
Both are human conditions.

You might enjoy reading a different perspective on this.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/7725#post_11921090

This helps explain some things I've experienced.

Brian.

 

[StanD]

You might enjoy reading a different perspective on this.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/7725#post_11921090

This helps explain some things I've experienced.

Brian.

I don't believe it. As far as the two pulses, sometimes one perceives clicks as a result of envelopes and not the underlying tones. Human Echoic Memory limitations are an established scientific fact. We can't accurately compare audio, in detail, beyond a few seconds difference. One can characterize but not differentiate accurately.

 

[Baldr]

re this link:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/7725#post_11921090
 
Quote:

  I don't believe it. As far as the two pulses, sometimes one perceives clicks as a result of envelopes and not the underlying tones. Human Echoic Memory limitations are an established scientific fact. We can't accurately compare audio, in detail, beyond a few seconds difference. One can characterize but not differentiate accurately.

I post this neither to be contentious nor to start a pissing contest.  Also, I am grateful for StanD's support for many of our products and low cost, efficient philosophy.  I do not believe in a zero sum universe where if someone is right, then someone else has to be wrong.  I also must point out, that despite our differences, I learned much from John Koval (referred in the above link) and we became lifelong friends as we concentrated on what we had in common rather than what were our differences.  Audio can be a great hobby.
 
That said, I do not believe but know from experience that I can tell the difference in long term blind listening between dozens of gain-matched pairs of equivalent products.  I also know that I have seen several other audiophiles do the same.  In all fairness, I have also seen some who could not.  In my theatre directing avocation, I have seen auditionees who had wonderful voices but could not hear tones to stay on key.  Those who cannot sing, seldom have singing as a hobby, even though they may attend and enjoy live theatre. 
 
I am not a tent revivalist.  I do not build products that I place my faith in, but what I know to be better.  If I subscribed to the above quote, I would either have to be a hypocrite, or would have sincerely wasted a life and career in seeking and building better sounding electronics.  I love doing what I do and making it available to others.  That notion propounded by StanD also invalidates a significant percentage of posts, perhaps the majority, on this forum.
 
I love theatre.  I love music.  I love audio, which is the reproduction on music.  All of them are based on soft science.  Neither is, for example, medicine.  If you give infected individuals an antibiotic, such and such a percentage will get better.  If you play Mahler for an audience, such and such a percentage will like the music.  If you play our flagship DAC, such and such a percentage will like it.  On and on.
 
If you listen to reproduced music, abilities vary widely.  All preamps I used to build were RIAA accurate to 0.1db (as is the Mani today - unusual then, unusual now).  Some can hear that degree of accuracy, others cannot.  Some are tone deaf-others are not.  Some can hear time domain (spatial) cues in our Multibit models, others cannot.  All I can do is do my best to make my products measure and sound as good as I can.
 
Science today is prone to revision as sophistication and experiments proliferate.  Until then, I pledge not to tell anyone in general and StanD in particular what they can or can not hear.

 

[JohnBal]

   
Science today is prone to revision as sophistication and experiments proliferate.  Until then, I pledge not to tell anyone in general and StanD in particular what they can or can not hear.

Amen! Thank you!! What a novel Idea in these parts...

 

[wink]

Yes.
 
The "blind always seem to tell the sighted that just because they (the blind)can't see, that neither can those who are sighted.

 

[hekeli]

   
I can tell the difference in long term blind listening between dozens of gain-matched pairs of equivalent products.

 
Can you post a sample scorecard of one of these (week long?) blind listening sessions? I would assume for your confidence you consistently get atleast 8-9/10 right.

 

[tonykaz]

Mr.Baldr and nuance sensitivity,
 
 I suppose that I fall-in with the group of "cannot / tone deafs".  But, I'd also suppose that I tend to become fatigued from the lesser performance levels,
it can take me months to become dissatisfied ( or maybe only a few days ).
 
I initially bought into the Schiit design concepts followed with a few years of ownership.  
Today, I hear a product's performance, feeling it to be "relative" to "my" system's performance, sometimes equal (rarely)
or not quite up to my brain's acceptable standards. I don't seem able to perceive the things the "Audiophile Nervosa" group
report as being desirable qualities of various equipments. ( which might be a Curse "they" have to live with )
So, I'm happy as a pig ( tony ) in Schiit.  
  However, I promise to do my part and own the best gear my Ears and Brain can accept. 
For the moment, that gear is Schiit & Sennheiser ( with my Audiologist recommended Eq device ). 
I have trouble understanding the shadings of Cassandra Wilson's vocal pronunciations and Ricky Lee Jones's vocals on her "Last Chance Texaco".
I hope a DAC will bring clarity to these types of musical things, I'll own the DAC that bring greater clarity. 
 
I'm not the "True Believer" sort of person but I am the trusting type.
I'm getting to the point where I trust the Schiit designs.
So, I'm gonna try one of your latest D/A converters, I won't be expecting miracles.
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[Byronb]

 

 
Science today is prone to revision as sophistication and experiments proliferate.  Until then, I pledge not to tell anyone in general and StanD in particular what they can or can not hear.

 
If only more people on this forum would heed this advice!