[arnyk]

But let's not get too hung up on ABX.

I think difference testing should be the go to first choice. If the residual isn't audible, there ipso facto can't be an audible difference. If there is an audible residual, then that would warrant moving on to ABX testing to see if the difference is audible while listening to music.

se

 
 
A big +1 to that.
 
For example Wireworld has link to a site with a mass of 16 and 24 bit music files related to different cables. Logical step one would be to test them for residual differences.
 
http://www.audio.de/ratgeber/soundfiles-gratis-download-analogkabel-2568176.html

 

[arnyk]

Sure. I'm just saying the blame for the mess is often misplaced.

A troll (genuine or otherwise), can't create a mess on their own. The responsibility of any resultant mess that may ensue is on the shoulders of those who respond. Or take potshots from the sidelines. Yet it's the "troll" who gets blamed for the mess and thread lockdowns.

se

 
Many may be guilty, but the person who instigates the most,  and/or the one(s)  who make the most personal attacks are probably going to be on the moderator's hit list.
 
( I think I just paraphrased dazzerfong) 

 
I don't know how it works around here, but I've never had a moderator call out specific people. It is just that some people go on a little vacation, or a permanent one. 

 

[arnyk]

  Headphones, IEMs and Loudspeakers make a difference.

 
And for those of us who still listen with speakers, rooms are a very big influence on SQ - probably bigger than the speakers themselves.
 
Source material also matters a ton.  There are some genres where good recordings are like hen's teeth.

 

[StanD]

   
And for those of us who still listen with speakers, rooms are a very big influence on SQ - probably bigger than the speakers themselves.
 
Source material also matters a ton.  There are some genres where good recordings are like hen's teeth.

I aas going to add the acoustics part of it but got too lazy. You are absolutely correct. Moving a couch can do all sorts of things.

 

[Steve Eddy]

That would be a huge loss to the forum in my opinion.

Thank you. But it's just getting more and more frustrating seeing threads get turned to crap and locked.

se

 

[arnyk]

Thank you. But it's just getting more and more frustrating seeing threads get turned to crap and locked.

se

 
 
The turning to crap is indeed frustrating. It happens so often. A thread can be a vortex that sucks in even people with good will.  Sometimes locking them puts lots of people out of their misery, guilty or not.
 
You can always make a new thread, right?

 

[Steve Eddy]

There's two ways you can look at this:

1. Blame the fool who started it, or:
2. Blame everyone else who followed him along with the ride.

So while you may go for no. 2, remember the problem would have never occurred if not for no. 1. So yes, you can blame both parties, both it's undeniable that the troll carries a large portion of it.

I don't agree.

All a fool/troll/whatever can do is put the key in the ignition. Takes someone else to turn that key and start the car. And if the car gets started, there's only one person responsible for it. The person who turned the key. The key could have simply been ignored.

That being said, emotions get heated when it comes to this forum particularly often. More often than not it's due to a visitor either ignorant of the conventions here or having an axe to grind with 'objectivity'.

So? There are ways of dealing with that that don't create a Schiitstorm and get threads locked.

Oh, and since you're a friend of AS, tell him to hurry up with the CD mats, would you? I genuinely want to know if at least there's a bit of plausibility to what he said.

He's a busy man but I'll try.

se

 

[Steve Eddy]

You can always make a new thread, right?

Shouldn't have to.

se

 

[dazzerfong]

I don't agree.

All a fool/troll/whatever can do is put the key in the ignition. Takes someone else to turn that key and start the car. And if the car gets started, there's only one person responsible for it. The person who turned the key. The key could have simply been ignored.
So? There are ways of dealing with that that don't create a Schiitstorm and get threads locked.

Since we're into analogies, the troll is like a thief who broke into an unlocked house and stole something. Sure, the owner might be a bit nutty leaving it unlocked, but that doesn't change the fact that the thief stole something to begin with. Another analogy is of a houseowner beating an intruder in their house, followed by the intruder accusing the houseowner of wrongdoing.
 
Of course there are ways to deal with it all without it hitting the fan, but if it does, blaming others seems hardly appropriate, don't you think?
 

He's a busy man but I'll try.

I'll have no problem with him coming up blank and just conceding. If anything, I'll respect him more for knowing his limitations. Problem is, don't make a claim without proof and all would have been fine.

 

[RRod]

Going back and forth about how we define a troll was probably part of the fodder that lead to the closing of the other threads. We should keep discussion more focused on the kind of dialectic we want in this particular thread, to keep it from the same fate. Enough about AS and his CD mats already.

 

[StanD]

How about a simple process. We should all ignore repeated unsubstantiated silly posts.  Lack of  attention drives away those that detract from an honest discussion.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Since we're into analogies, the troll is like a thief who broke into an unlocked house and stole something. Sure, the owner might be a bit nutty leaving it unlocked, but that doesn't change the fact that the thief stole something to begin with. Another analogy is of a houseowner beating an intruder in their house, followed by the intruder accusing the houseowner of wrongdoing.

WHAT?!?

How is that AT ALL analogous? We don't OWN Sound Science. Sound Science isn't our PRIVATE PROPERTY. Those who post here, troll or otherwise, are not INTRUDERS. This is a PUBLIC SPACE. Well, technically it's privately owned. BUT NOT BY US!

I'm completely flabbergasted that anyone would draw the analogy to someone trespassing on private property. If that's really how some of you see it, it's no wonder we have problems here.

Of course there are ways to deal with it all without it hitting the fan, but if it does, blaming others seems hardly appropriate, don't you think?

I put the blame on those responsible. And the only people responsible for starting the car are those who turn the key.

I'll have no problem with him coming up blank and just conceding. If anything, I'll respect him more for knowing his limitations. Problem is, don't make a claim without proof and all would have been fine.

All would be fine if you simply hold them to substantiating their claims instead of thinking they're intruders and running for your shotgun.

se

 

[arnyk]

  How about a simple process. We should all ignore repeated unsubstantiated silly posts.  Lack of  attention drives away those that detract from an honest discussion.

+1
 
Trolls basically are seeking attention. Many are well-practiced at attention-getting and they know how to keep on inciting people so they get their attention-fix.
 
Usually, the thread is the focus of the group's attention, and moderators know that locking the thread is often a fix.

 

[Steve Eddy]

How about a simple process. We should all ignore repeated unsubstantiated silly posts.

That would be a start.

Another thing is don't let yourselves get lured into the weeds. During the last big Schiitstorm, he had you all off arguing about building pyramids and Tesla and Schiit.

se

 

[limpidglitch]

During the last big Schiitstorm, he had you all off arguing about building pyramids and Tesla and Schiit.

se

 
I still don't see what was so wrong about that. It only got messy once people decided to start getting nasty.