Now thats what I call synergy!
Jul 30, 2004 at 5:04 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20
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Out of curiosity, I hauled myself and my Benchmark DAC1 down to the local (i.e. 35mi drive) Guitar Center, to try out some cans. Lo and behold, I was blown off my butt by the DT770 Pro 80ohm, which took me by quite a suprise, as I had owned the 250ohm version for quite some time. The synergy with the DAC1 was immediately apparent. After a few songs, I was sold, and after chipping the price down, I was hurring home. Now, after some hours of burn-in and seriously fun listening, my impressions have not changed.

Something about the DAC1 or its' headphone amp has a way of grabbing these cans by the nuts, and making them do as they are told. The bass is amazing, not the overblown, tiring bass I was used to from my various days with the 250 ohmers, rather it is still extraordinarily powerful when needed (second only to the PS1), but does not intrude over into the mids, and can actually lie dormant when appropriate. And the mids, my god, the mids, I never though I would hear mids like this from a DT770. It's no OmegaII/BlueHawaii setup (
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) but the mids stand out nicely, with great life and clarity. The treble is the other big improvement from the 250-ohmers, it is no longer sharp and strained, but smoother and appropriate, i.e. it is loud enough to get all the details, yet not so loud as to become fatiguing or unrealistic.

Amusingly, out of my Archos, the bass rises to that good ol' DT770 level, to the point at which I can focus on the bass and nothing else (just what I had experienced with the 250-ohmers on the Corda HA1 and Gilmore V1). The treble remains appropriate, however. I am thinking that the true 0-ohm output of the DAC1's headphone jacks is responsible for the uber-tight control of these monster cans. Benchmark's main engineer was explaining to me the other day how that keeps the dampening factor as high as possible, which really makes sense with what I'm hearing.

The real kicker is that I am now wondering how much I'm going to get out of the HD650 whose arrival I am still awaiting. I know those cans have some seriously powerful bass, so if they are as happy running from the Benchmark as the DT770 is, then
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And even if they're not, at least I've got something I'm really stoked with.
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 5:29 AM Post #3 of 20
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Quote:

Originally Posted by hella
So I take it that you prefer the 770's to both your DT-531's and your CD3K's when it comes to the Benchmark?


Yes indeed. It doesn't have the soundstage of the CD3K (what does, besides the K1000, R10, and Stax?), but it definitely has a more enjoyable sound than either to me. More powerful bass (but not at all overwhelming as I noted), more natural mids (close with the CD3K, though) and treble. By direct comparison, the DT531 sounds thin and a tad metallic up high.

It is all about synergy, though. The DT770 is to bassy to listen to on the Archos, yet the DT531 sounds like the groovalizer it is reputed to be.
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 5:51 AM Post #4 of 20

ayt999

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
It doesn't have the soundstage of the CD3K (what does, besides the K1000, R10, and Stax?)


I think you forgot about the HE90.
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good to see that you found a system that you enjoy a lot. I'm still working on getting a headphone amp that has better synergy with my headphones... but hopefully that should be taken care of soon.
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 6:19 AM Post #6 of 20
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ayt999
I think you forgot about the HE90.
orphsmile.gif


good to see that you found a system that you enjoy a lot. I'm still working on getting a headphone amp that has better synergy with my headphones... but hopefully that should be taken care of soon.



I guess I should have specified out of the stuff that I've actually heard
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I've never been graced by the presence of an Orpheus
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Synergy is definitely a tricky balance to achieve. The funny thing about it is that I know I don't have the end-all be-all here, but I really don't care now, since it just makes music so nicely.
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 6:35 AM Post #7 of 20

ayt999

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
I guess I should have specified out of the stuff that I've actually heard
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I thought that is what you meant but it is the mighty HE90.
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I'm just thinking of the ATH-W1000 I heard with the AT-DHA3000 amp and how I wish I had that amp right here to listen to with my ATH-L3000. I've more or less decided that I am going to be hauling it back from japan the next time I go there. I cannot wait for winter break.
biggrin.gif
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 7:04 AM Post #8 of 20

zeplin

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Iron_Dreamer,
With the 650, you won't notice the same 'amount' of bass as with the 770, but you will for sure be in awww over its ability to present bass that is tremendously articulate/accurate/speedy, and bass that goes deeper than ever before...probably similar to your 770's, again in terms of articulate bass, not amount. All the other aspects of the 650 will just have to be up to you when you judge whether you like them. I think you'll notice much more smooth, silky, but realitic mids through the 650's, especially with that DAC of yours. Also, don't be surprized to first find a dramatic difference in sonic signature between it and the 770. It is obvious that the two were created from two very different minds, both providing different presentations on how they thought a headphone should sound. I think the two will compliment each other perfectly, which is why I am after a 770!! However, given the big difference in the ohm ratings between the 2 cans (770&650), I am wondering if the DAC will drive the more highly rated ohm HD650 as well as it did with the lower rated ohm (80) 770 can??

All that considering, I have only heard the 770 (250ohm version) briefly (more than on just a few occassions, but briefly) and am wondering that if I buy the 80ohm version of the 770, because of the lower ohm rating, will that version help quiet/calm down the bass to more enjoyable levels but still maintain that cavernuss deep bass response? Until recently, I was fixed on making the 250ohm 770 my next headphone. But after hearing things about them having just too much bass, and that getting in the way of their enjoyment, I had changed my mind...not fully, but close to not considering them at all. It might be worth noting that I still am somewhat of a basshead with respect to having the bass response be the strongest proponent of a headphone (If I was forced to choose)...so that does not mean I am looking to take the bass almost completely out of the 770; I just would like it reduced slightly. So does the 80ohm version help fix some of these issues, or does it depend more on the ohm rating of my headamp output in addition to my source/amp as a whole? If the former is true, what other changes are there with regards to the other parts of the spectrum besides the bass response? I really would like to hear some good news (don't we all) so I can once again put this headphone at the top of my list for my next headphone purchase! Thanx for the help!
basshead.gif
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 7:42 AM Post #9 of 20

vasu

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If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the DT770/80 at Guitar Center? I went to one recently and they wouldn't budge from $200, and even when I asked they acted really really offended, annoyed and bothered that I'd even consider bargaining down on price.

This was of course the Boston GC i went to on vacation and not the New Orleans one I usually go to.

So i'm just curious what the negotiation range on these are...

-vasu
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 3:11 PM Post #10 of 20
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Quote:

Originally Posted by zeplin
Iron_Dreamer,
With the 650, you won't notice the same 'amount' of bass as with the 770, but you will for sure be in awww over its ability to present bass that is tremendously articulate/accurate/speedy, and bass that goes deeper than ever before...probably similar to your 770's, again in terms of articulate bass, not amount. All the other aspects of the 650 will just have to be up to you when you judge whether you like them. I think you'll notice much more smooth, silky, but realitic mids through the 650's, especially with that DAC of yours. Also, don't be surprized to first find a dramatic difference in sonic signature between it and the 770. It is obvious that the two were created from two very different minds, both providing different presentations on how they thought a headphone should sound. I think the two will compliment each other perfectly, which is why I am after a 770!! However, given the big difference in the ohm ratings between the 2 cans (770&650), I am wondering if the DAC will drive the more highly rated ohm HD650 as well as it did with the lower rated ohm (80) 770 can??

All that considering, I have only heard the 770 (250ohm version) briefly (more than on just a few occassions, but briefly) and am wondering that if I buy the 80ohm version of the 770, because of the lower ohm rating, will that version help quiet/calm down the bass to more enjoyable levels but still maintain that cavernuss deep bass response? Until recently, I was fixed on making the 250ohm 770 my next headphone. But after hearing things about them having just too much bass, and that getting in the way of their enjoyment, I had changed my mind...not fully, but close to not considering them at all. It might be worth noting that I still am somewhat of a basshead with respect to having the bass response be the strongest proponent of a headphone (If I was forced to choose)...so that does not mean I am looking to take the bass almost completely out of the 770; I just would like it reduced slightly. So does the 80ohm version help fix some of these issues, or does it depend more on the ohm rating of my headamp output in addition to my source/amp as a whole? If the former is true, what other changes are there with regards to the other parts of the spectrum besides the bass response? I really would like to hear some good news (don't we all) so I can once again put this headphone at the top of my list for my next headphone purchase! Thanx for the help!
basshead.gif



Well, hopefully the HD650 should be here today, so I can start drawing comparisons
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I will be suprised if the sonic balance changes, since right now the DT770 doesn't sound overly bassy out of the DAC1, it has big powerful bass when the recording does, bu not when it doesn't. The DT770 is actually sounding a lot like I was expecting the HD650 to, come to think of it. It seems to me that the 80ohm doesn't have lessened bass, because it can be just as huge and overwhelming as I remember the 250's being, however it does have better mids and highs, both of which sound smoother and more natural, the latter not having the sharp sounding nature of the 250's. If you want the bass to not overwhelm you, I guess you just need a source/amp that can control it. The DAC1 is the first that I've found (but I haven't tried that many, remember).

Quote:

Originally Posted by vasu
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the DT770/80 at Guitar Center? I went to one recently and they wouldn't budge from $200, and even when I asked they acted really really offended, annoyed and bothered that I'd even consider bargaining down on price.

This was of course the Boston GC i went to on vacation and not the New Orleans one I usually go to.

So i'm just curious what the negotiation range on these are...



I got them for $160 (tax included), it was like $148 before tax. The guy that got me the price had helped me getting the headphones down, and finding a place for me to set up the Benchmark. He listened to the cans for a minute himself, as he said he had never tried them before. Then he went around telling all his co-workers how great they are. So maybe I had him juiced u a bit? I just said "hey, I saw these for $160 online, could you match that price?" and he said "sure dude, no problem. Man you're getting these for like more than $50 off, wow!" or something like that as he proceeded to ring me up. Absolutely no stress or negotiation necessary.
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 3:52 PM Post #11 of 20

Murdoch

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I have to admit,this thread is getting me excited. Thus, I have some questions!
wink.gif
Is the 80 ohm version a general "fix" of the 250's shortcomings (painful highs and buried mids)? How new is the 80 ohm version of the 770? Is it new at all? And finally, where can they be purchased online?
 
Jul 30, 2004 at 4:41 PM Post #12 of 20
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Murdoch
I have to admit,this thread is getting me excited. Thus, I have some questions!
wink.gif
Is the 80 ohm version a general "fix" of the 250's shortcomings (painful highs and buried mids)? How new is the 80 ohm version of the 770? Is it new at all? And finally, where can they be purchased online?



I wouldn't say it fixes all the shortcomings of the 250ohm's, it definitely fixes the high end problem, but the mids do still get buried under the bass unless well amped. I think it is at least fairly new, it is not even on Beyer's website anywhere. The only place I've seen to buy it online is here: http://froogle.google.com/froogle_ur...oJ6AAAAAAAAAAA
 
Aug 9, 2004 at 2:54 PM Post #13 of 20

Zoide

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So, Iron_Dreamer, have you received the 650s?

I'm very curious as to how much you'll like them, since you like rock/metal so much and the 650s are not known for being great at that.

Then again, you *do* have an *excellent* source (at least according to just about everyone in this forum
biggrin.gif
), so I guess it might really make them shine
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Aug 9, 2004 at 5:02 PM Post #14 of 20
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Well the HD650 is definitely sounding great to me now, there are only a couple of issues I'd wish to improve, but of course no headphone is perfect. The lowest bass, while present, doesn't have the viceral power of the DT770, i.e. cannon shots don't rattle your head, they just go "boom." Also the soundstage is not on a par size-wise with other high-end cans (R10, CD3000, K1000, etc.) but this does not annoy me or take away from the listening experience, as the soundstage it does provide is nice enough to get the placement of everyone properly.

The mids are probably the highlight of the HD650, they just have great detail, speed, and naturality, making the nice mids of the Beyer (on their own) sound a bit dry and lifeless. The HD650 suprisingly puts a snap into drums like I can't recall hearing, they certainly seem to have great timing all around. The treble is a bit smoother and flatter than the Beyer, but still at the loud enough to be detailed but not loud enough to be overbearing volume level (i.e. just about right). The bass is very powerful but never seems overwhelming, and it is also very fast, like the rest of the sound, which with double-bass drums makes me think back to my SR325 days.

I only have about 150 hours burn-in so far, and maybe the deep bass will come in later. I have listened exclusively with the Cardas cable, though the stock cable definitely looks much nicer than the one of the HD600.

Now yes, I do have a great source, and I think the great speed and detail I hear with the HD650 is what my source produces that the HD650 has the ability to pass through. If my source was not so fast and detailed, well I guess I could understand the HD650 being the snooze-fest the HD600 has been for me, since these cans don't have any built-in frequency enhancements to hype up the sound to compensate for a boring source. As the title of this thread goes, it is all about synergy. EMU+CD3000 = good, DAC1+HD650 = good, DAC1+CD3000=headache.
 
Aug 9, 2004 at 5:16 PM Post #15 of 20

HiGHFLYiN9

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
I wouldn't say it fixes all the shortcomings of the 250ohm's, it definitely fixes the high end problem, but the mids do still get buried under the bass unless well amped. I think it is at least fairly new, it is not even on Beyer's website anywhere. The only place I've seen to buy it online is here: http://froogle.google.com/froogle_ur...oJ6AAAAAAAAAAA


That explains why I was a bit confused when I read that people felt the DT770s were bright, I just recently got the 80ohm version (from Asenashop BTW, great service) and they weren't bright at all. I still find them to be a bit mid deficient with my upgraded PPA, but then again they have opened up a bit after 40 or so hours of burn in. Then again, when your used to K501s, most phones seem mid deficient. Overall the 770s are a great value for $160, they make an enjoyable stand-by when you need some deep bass, and with 18dB of isolation they can be nice mobile cans too.
 

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