November Stereophile Reviews Cables
Nov 11, 2001 at 6:06 PM Post #46 of 61
Quote:

Originally posted by Xevion
In a somewhat reasonable audio setup (<$3000), I don't think I would allow myself to spend more then $300 on interconnects and cables - combined. I just feel that they won't make nearly as significant a difference as a better speaker or amplifier, if a real difference at all.


I used to believe the same thing. Yes, the differences between speakers and headphones can often constitute some of the biggest differences you'll hear versus the switching of other types of components. I am finding now (as I review several higher-end interconnects) that one can also realize significant differences with cables.

Of course, I can only speak of my experience so far with these cables in my primary rig. Though full reviews are forthcoming (I will take at least a couple of months with all of them), a good example would be Cardas' Neutral Reference interconnects. When I put these in my rig, I was stunned from the opening moments of the Gladiator soundtrack at how revealing they were -- hyper-revealing. I found this very exciting, and after some listening I rushed to the phone to call MooGoesTheCow to let him know what I was hearing in my preliminary listening sessions. No joke, these interconnects in my rig sounded like I had inserted some sort of active component somewhere in the signal path. Dynamics were enhanced, treble energy was notably stronger, hyper-hyper-detailed presentation over the my entire audible frequency spectrum was realized -- from a passive component? The only conclusion I could draw was that either the Neutral References are a product of magic (I dismissed this immediately) or they're simply letting more of what's coming from my SCD-C333ES's outputs reach my Max (I opted for this explanation).

Sounds ideal, eh? Maybe. Are these my favorite cables so far of all the ones I'm reviewing? Too early to say, but they are easily the most exciting in my rig (admittedly, as of today, I still haven't heard the Tara RSC Air2's or the Stealth SCR's). If one is looking for the ultimate in neutrality, the Neutral References were mission-built to be just that. Why are they like this? I have no idea. Low capacitance? Low inductance? That's what I was immediately thinking, but I also have cables in a roomful of cables that have lower capacitance and lower inductance that don't do what the Neutral References do. A quick call to Cardas, and I was told that there's a lot more to cable voicing than just capacitance and inductance (it was a very interesting conversation). I'll have the opportunity to try to find out more about the Neutral References and why they do what they do by asking George Cardas questions about them (which I hope will provide me with some neat info for the review).

Again, full reviews are forthcoming, but I thought I'd mention (in my very long-winded way) that I am learning that cable differences (at least with the cables I'm reviewing right now, and in my rig) can be tantamount to changing out other components.
 
Nov 11, 2001 at 10:57 PM Post #48 of 61
Quote:

Originally posted by jude
...they're simply letting more of what's coming from the my SCD-C333ES's outputs reach my Max...

...I am learning that cable differences...can be (but may not always are...


Hey, Jude, you want an editor for that review? Sorry, don't mean any disrespect...it's not like I've never been guilty of similar...
 
Nov 12, 2001 at 2:04 AM Post #49 of 61
Quote:

Originally posted by DustyChalk
Hey, Jude, you want an editor for that review? Sorry, don't mean any disrespect...it's not like I've never been guilty of similar...


LOL! I usually read my posts at least once before I hit send. Lemme tidy it up.
 
Nov 12, 2001 at 4:32 AM Post #50 of 61
Jude, you've been talking a bunch about the interconnects, yet you haven't hardly mentioned the power cords. Is this because you're not finding the differences as noticeable, or the improvements not as great as the IC's?
 
Nov 12, 2001 at 4:34 AM Post #51 of 61
Quote:

Originally posted by MooGoesTheCow
Jude, you've been talking a bunch about the interconnects, yet you haven't hardly mentioned the power cords. Is this because you're not finding the differences as noticeable, or the improvements not as great as the IC's?


No, Mooster, it's mostly because I haven't gotten around as much to the powercord switching/evaluation. I'll start doing that more seriously very soon.
 
Nov 12, 2001 at 11:24 PM Post #52 of 61
Quote:

I used to believe the same thing. Yes, the differences between speakers and headphones can often constitute some of the biggest differences you'll hear versus the switching of other types of components. I am finding now (as I review several higher-end interconnects) that one can also realize significant differences with cables.

Of course, I can only speak of my experience so far with these cables in my primary rig. Though full reviews are forthcoming (I will take at least a couple of months with all of them), a good example would be Cardas' Neutral Reference interconnects. When I put these in my rig, I was stunned from the opening moments of the Gladiator soundtrack at how revealing they were -- hyper-revealing. I found this very exciting, and after some listening I rushed to the phone to call MooGoesTheCow to let him know what I was hearing in my preliminary listening sessions. No joke, these interconnects in my rig sounded like I had inserted some sort of active component somewhere in the signal path. Dynamics were enhanced, treble energy was notably stronger, hyper-hyper-detailed presentation over the my entire audible frequency spectrum was realized -- from a passive component? The only conclusion I could draw was that either the Neutral References are a product of magic (I dismissed this immediately) or they're simply letting more of what's coming from my SCD-C333ES's outputs reach my Max (I opted for this explanation).

Sounds ideal, eh? Maybe. Are these my favorite cables so far of all the ones I'm reviewing? Too early to say, but they are easily the most exciting in my rig (admittedly, as of today, I still haven't heard the Tara RSC Air2's or the Stealth SCR's). If one is looking for the ultimate in neutrality, the Neutral References were mission-built to be just that. Why are they like this? I have no idea. Low capacitance? Low inductance? That's what I was immediately thinking, but I also have cables in a roomful of cables that have lower capacitance and lower inductance that don't do what the Neutral References do. A quick call to Cardas, and I was told that there's a lot more to cable voicing than just capacitance and inductance (it was a very interesting conversation). I'll have the opportunity to try to find out more about the Neutral References and why they do what they do by asking George Cardas questions about them (which I hope will provide me with some neat info for the review).

Again, full reviews are forthcoming, but I thought I'd mention (in my very long-winded way) that I am learning that cable differences (at least with the cables I'm reviewing right now, and in my rig) can be tantamount to changing out other components.



Would you notice anywhere near the same difference if your *best* source is a computer hooked into a mass market reciever (Yamaha HTR-5440), and outputted into very non revealing $100 speakers? My second best source is an old Sony CD changer that sounds rather harsh, if you don't count the DVD player because it is in the family entertainment center which has a 70s reciever that dosen't have enough inputs (The DVD sound goes through the VCR then through the TV to the reciever.

Yes, I know it shouldn't be like that but it is the only way it can be wired untill a new reciever is purchased. And I garuntee it will be a cheap consumer level Yamaha or Okyno if it happens when I live in this house too. It is impossible to watch a movie on headphones because there is soooooooooo much noise. The interconnects are mostly AR ones, I upgraded them to that from generic crappy ones, and I didn't notice a difference, but I never tried to notice a difference, I upgraded them ebcause the old crappy ones were too small.

I am not denying that cables and interconnects could make a difference, I just think spending a lot of money on them is extremely inefficent when you have an entry level system. My most important upgrades are as follows: 1) Speakers - regulate the Celestions to the rear, get some Paradigms or something nicer), 2) CD player - Currently on my PC I use my DVD drive. This not good. Need inexpensive Marantz/NAD CDP. 3) Headphone amp - after that I will have a good enough source to actually utilize a better headphone amp then my Airhead, so then will be the time to get it. I wouldn't even consider upgrading my interconnects untill I got all that at a minimum.
 
Nov 20, 2001 at 1:02 PM Post #53 of 61
I've got the better Monster IC's and SC'c from CC. They sound pretty damned good.

I think I'm at about 95% of the best sound I can get, both home for about $10K and portable for about $650.

To improve to 96% will probably cost me another $10K at home or $650 portable.

DIMINISHING RETURNS has arrived. Before I get into that type of money for that type of upgrade, I'll have to win one of those $200M lottery jackpots. I know that IC's & SC's make a difference. Buy good quality and compare them to cheap Recoton or RS stuff.

One place I'm luckier than most. When we built this house 4 yrs ago, I had a dedicated 30amp single outlet circuit installed for my system. Watched them put it in and it is #10AWG wire. Really makes a difference if you get a chance to do it.

very_evil_smiley.gif
 
Nov 20, 2001 at 4:29 PM Post #54 of 61
Quote:

Originally posted by gaineso
One place I'm luckier than most. When we built this house 4 yrs ago, I had a dedicated 30amp single outlet circuit installed for my system. Watched them put it in and it is #10AWG wire. Really makes a difference if you get a chance to do it.
very_evil_smiley.gif


It sure does!! Good move and good call!!

smily_headphones1.gif
 
Nov 22, 2001 at 7:04 PM Post #55 of 61
These all appear to classic cases of "more money does not directly mean more music" I have been very suspicious of this mega buck stuff, not because I can't afford it but because carbon fiber cased stuff does not make it sound better it just doesn't. I had a few very expensive cables in my main system from synergistic, JPS labs etc.. I settled on Nordost Red Dawns they may not be the cheapest but to my ears they play notes and get the toes tappin if you know what I mean. At any rate more money doesn't mean more musical but for some I'm sure it's just like having a big engine or a big yaught. That Seiko may keep good time but the Omega F-1 chronograph at $3600.00 a pop sure makes your friends drool doesn't it. It's not music it's machismo pure and simple.
JC
very_evil_smiley.gif
 
Nov 22, 2001 at 7:54 PM Post #56 of 61
Quote:

Originally posted by Jrook
At any rate more money doesn't mean more musical but for some I'm sure it's just like having a big engine or a big yaught. That Seiko may keep good time but the Omega F-1 chronograph at $3600.00 a pop sure makes your friends drool doesn't it. It's not music it's machismo pure and simple.
JC
very_evil_smiley.gif


Though I agree with you that more money doesn't necessarily mean better sound, I'm in the process of reviewing many higher-dollar cables, and several of them are very impressive in my rig. The $898/meter/pair Acoustic Zen Silver References, for example, are actually quite remarkable (again, in my rig).

Having worked in a hi-fi store many years ago (and as someone who still frequents them), I have learned that higher prices don't always buy you better performance -- but shop carefully, and often it does.
 
Nov 28, 2001 at 8:29 PM Post #57 of 61
Quote:

Originally posted by Owen Meany
Boy, I am amazed at the anti-cable vibe here at headwize.....I am new to headphones but old to audio...cable do make a difference and expensive cable do make a bigger difference. All with in the contect of the system surrounding the cables and the doctrine of dimishing returns...

I have see significant influnces on my set via different cables...Now, I am not saying lets all go out and mortage the house for speaker cables...but borrow some from a hi-end shop...change one pair for another....listen critcally....go back and forth between pairs....You will become a beliver...

I hope...



I am a beliver.
Team Siltech
I would have it in tea if I could....yum yum
 
Nov 29, 2001 at 12:55 AM Post #58 of 61
One thing I did notice about speaker cables.

I had a Kenwood receiver with Circuit City Monster 12AWG speaker wires.

I replaced the Kenwood with a JVC and the whole bottom of the sound was gone. Replaced the Monster cables with Rat Shack 14AWG braid and everything smoothed back out.

Then I got the Harmon-Kardon AVR300 I have now and couldn't get rid of those RS cables fast enough. Totally frelled sound. Put the Monsters back in and all is sweet in Tunesville.

I guess it's possible for some of this mega-buck stuff to really be different. However, I'm not about to spend more to connect my CDP and receiver than I paid for both of them.

There is definitely a difference in the sound between the junk cables that come with components and the upgraded Monsters that I got at CC & BB. They really make a difference.

If I had Krell or Madrigal or Linn equipment, I'd probably be able to afford the super cables. Not for my current system though.

Cables do alter the sound in some ways. Theoretically they can't. Practically, yes they do.

Now quit being so compulsive and spend some time LISTENING TO THE MUSIC!!!!!!
 
Nov 29, 2001 at 4:03 AM Post #59 of 61
Quote:

Cables do alter the sound in some ways. Theoretically they can't. Practically, yes they do.

Now quit being so compulsive and spend some time LISTENING TO THE MUSIC!!!!!!


Theoretically cables absolutely can and DO alter the sound. There is lots of theory to substantiate what we are hearing. Read the November issue of Stereophile. Good article on interconnects. Well worth reading.

Now, while you're reading the article, "spend some time LISTENING TO THE MUSIC!!!!"

Happy Listening!!

smily_headphones1.gif
 

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