Norne Audio (Was: Norse Audio): Feedback & Impression Thread
Jun 19, 2019 at 11:30 PM Post #3,751 of 6,452
Ok, I finally got around to doing my cable comparison - MrSpeakers DUM, MrSpeakers Vivo, Moon Audio Silver Dragon, Norne Silvergarde S3 all in XLR



Two cables that had the best microdetail and definition were the DUM and the S3. By detail and definition, I don't mean tilted up upper end, but for me it's being able to distinctly hear the start and stop of a notes (regardless of the instrument) which allows me to better enjoy all the different musical lines happening in the music. The Silver Dragon was a surprising disappointment here. One thing to note on the Silver Dragon cable I had is that it was built with the adapters in the middle of the cable so that you can swap out different terminations. I can't imagine this benefits sound. I was even concerned to the point of using some DeOxIt on the connectors (and separated/reinserted several times to try to work it in) in case there was any corrosion or just patina on the connectors. It didn't seem to make a difference.

For me, I also find that the soundstaging ability also largely goes along with a cables microdetail and definition capability, although the tonal balance also affects this a bit. The Vivo was still very good at this but on some tracks, it seemed as if the Vivo had a bit less air on top and sometimes it didn't soundstage as well. I also found the bass to sometimes be a touch ripe on some tracks; it was often enjoyable too, but it sometimes seemed to make things just a touch muddy or wooly. Maybe this is because I was also using the suede pads, so perhaps the Vivo is a better match to the original pads.

For my experience, I didn't find much fault with the S3 other than the price. It's my reference since I haven't heard any better (I have done similar comparisons on my other headphones with black dragon, cardas, ZMF michanikos, hifiman stock, zmf stock). Plus, the build on the Norne cables seems more like a bespoke product than any of the others (not that that benefits sound quality). I wanted something very different from my other cables so I went for the purple sleeves.

As a caveat to cable upgrades, I always caution that sound differences are relatively minor so if you haven't optimized your upstream components (or even which headphones you are using), you may not want to spend a lot on cables. The Vivo is a very good one, perhaps the best stock cable I've heard (although the bar is pretty low in my experience...). My experiences are with my equipment, with my ears, and my value system. That being said, I believe that if you want to extract the most performance out of your system, you do have to upgrade your cables (hey, don't forget the interconnect from your DAC to your amp...). As always YMMV.


(cross posted to the Ether 2 thread)

I agree with your disappointment about the Silver Dragon cable. I just got a Silver Dragon adapter to combine with my Draug Silver cable and you know what.......It killed the sound quality of the Draug. I was so disappointed. I can't believe such an expensive adapter with a Furutech 6.3mm connector and all was so bad. The highs were decreased and the bass was also to a lesser extent. I cannot believe this is a silver cable. No more Moon Audio cables for me.
 
Jun 19, 2019 at 11:53 PM Post #3,752 of 6,452
I agree with your disappointment about the Silver Dragon cable. I just got a Silver Dragon adapter to combine with my Draug Silver cable and you know what.......It killed the sound quality of the Draug. I was so disappointed. I can't believe such an expensive adapter with a Furutech 6.3mm connector and all was so bad. The highs were decreased and the bass was also to a lesser extent. I cannot believe this is a silver cable. No more Moon Audio cables for me.

Agreed. Not all silver cable is the same. At a basic spec on the wires below. I'm sure there's much more to it than just the raw amount of silver too.

Silvergarde S3
4-wire model:
4 x 20awg Silver OCC Litz - 11-core (44 total cores) - Cotton multi-core - infused polymer center core - pure textile - layered design (tri-layer)

Silver Dragon
"It is a silver conductor based cable and it uses 4 x 99.99998% UP-OCC Stranded Silver 24AWG Teflon insulated stranded conductors."

4x20 has an effective gauge of 14 (2.0809 mm^2)
4 x 24 has an effective gauge of 18 (0.8230 mm^2)
That's a pretty big difference. I'm guessing that accounts for some of the difference in performance.
 
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Jun 20, 2019 at 12:03 AM Post #3,753 of 6,452
I agree with your disappointment about the Silver Dragon cable. I just got a Silver Dragon adapter to combine with my Draug Silver cable and you know what.......It killed the sound quality of the Draug. I was so disappointed. I can't believe such an expensive adapter with a Furutech 6.3mm connector and all was so bad. The highs were decreased and the bass was also to a lesser extent. I cannot believe this is a silver cable. No more Moon Audio cables for me.

Also, Trevor makes adapters (Solv) as well. I've asked him to make an XLR to 1/4" S3 adapter for me too.
 
Jun 20, 2019 at 11:11 AM Post #3,754 of 6,452
Agreed. Not all silver cable is the same. At a basic spec on the wires below. I'm sure there's much more to it than just the raw amount of silver too.

Silvergarde S3
4-wire model:
4 x 20awg Silver OCC Litz - 11-core (44 total cores) - Cotton multi-core - infused polymer center core - pure textile - layered design (tri-layer)

Silver Dragon
"It is a silver conductor based cable and it uses 4 x 99.99998% UP-OCC Stranded Silver 24AWG Teflon insulated stranded conductors."

4x20 has an effective gauge of 14 (2.0809 mm^2)
4 x 24 has an effective gauge of 18 (0.8230 mm^2)
That's a pretty difference. I'm guessing that accounts for some of the difference in performance.

Exactly, Drew uses too little wire, in the wrong configuration!
 
Jun 20, 2019 at 11:30 AM Post #3,755 of 6,452
Also, Trevor makes adapters (Solv) as well. I've asked him to make an XLR to 1/4" S3 adapter for me too.

Yes I need to get an adapter from Trevor. I need it relatively quickly because I refuse to use the Moon Audio. I might also want to try a Solvine cable to to see what his hybrid cables sound like. If anyone has an adapter they are willing to sell pm me.

Exactly, Drew uses too little wire, in the wrong configuration!
Exactly. One of the biggest factors to Norne’s good sound is Trevor uses larger gauges in his cable, thus giving more cable, lowering capacitance. Love my Draug Silver. It is big yet light.
 
Jun 21, 2019 at 9:05 AM Post #3,756 of 6,452
My beauties !
DSC_0473.JPG DSC_0469.JPG DSC_0470.JPG
 
Jun 21, 2019 at 9:58 AM Post #3,757 of 6,452
Jun 21, 2019 at 10:08 AM Post #3,758 of 6,452
Nice! It has been a while, since I have seen the wood splitter, and I really dig it.
Truly a beautiful splitter.
I saw it in one of the photos Trevor sent me, and I had no doubt.
Lu
 
Jun 21, 2019 at 10:23 AM Post #3,759 of 6,452
Can anyone guess on how the sound signature of a Silvergarde S3 4 wire vs 8-wire would change?

The last communication I had with Trevor was last year & gave some indication that the 8-wire would change the sound signature to be more on the warm side.
This makes sense I think, heavier or thicker guage usually means a more thicker sound in other cables!?


I haven't been able to get in contact with Trevor in a while, I'm guessing he is backed up again.

All I know is I have the Silver 8 wire version with my Empyrean and it helped allot with the treble region not to mention Micro Detail and Bass quickness to my ears coming from a stock cable.
 
Jun 21, 2019 at 11:44 AM Post #3,761 of 6,452
Very nice config! Where did you get that headphone stand? Seems quite useful with that cable hanger on the back. Just what I'll need for my Auteur and incoming S3!

Oh and hello from a fellow italian :)

I bought it from StudioLarmo from Poland (on Etsy).
Really well done, very stable.
The base is wide so our jewels do not inadvertently risk falling and ruining
Cheers from Genoa
:)
Lu
 
Jun 22, 2019 at 1:18 PM Post #3,762 of 6,452
Jun 22, 2019 at 5:26 PM Post #3,764 of 6,452
Exactly, Drew uses too little wire, in the wrong configuration!

There are several things to know before making ICs and other audio cables. The primary one is how to correctly attach the terminations.also what cable formulas create what improvements. I do not think Drew knows the secret.
The real cable magicians like Trevor, Alex @ WyWires and a few others know the secrets and produce cables that affect the sound of your system. It would be to your advantage to seek their advice before ordering.
 
Jun 22, 2019 at 5:50 PM Post #3,765 of 6,452
There are several things to know before making ICs and other audio cables. The primary one is how to correctly attach the terminations.also what cable formulas create what improvements. I do not think Drew knows the secret.
The real cable magicians like Trevor, Alex @ WyWires and a few others know the secrets and produce cables that affect the sound of your system. It would be to your advantage to seek their advice before ordering.
I don’t think there are necessarily any “secrets” per say other than great experience and the ability to apply the knowledge from that experience. I think Trevor combines his experience with good cable science. He also uses quality wire in large gauges and tweaks that wire to get the sound he is after.
 

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