non-ipod hd player that can create playlists from a mac?

[muchachotron]

i want a hd player that i can just drag my music files/folders to and play them, none of the drm/format conversion nonsense on the ipod. i have no problem using the file tree navigation on my riovolt mp3 cd player, but that is only 650-700mb of music on a disc, not 20 gb to wade through, so i would like the ability to create playlists on my mac. i've been looking around and i've narrowed my choices down to the ihp-120 and the rio karma (though that's just from my own research - i would very much like more input toward my decision). however, neither of these devices seem to be able to create playlists if you are using a mac. does anyone know of any players out there, or any that are coming out soon, that can use playlists created on a mac?

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

If 'playlisting' is your thing, I would go with the Karma. The iHP is a great player, and it will show up as a seperate HD on your computer IIRC. With the Karma you will use RMML (Rio Music Manager Lite) it is a piece of Java software that will work over ethernet with your Mac. It features playlist creation etc. The big thing with the Karma is that it also supports on the fly playlisting which means that you can just dump your music on the player and make the playlists and save them while on the player itself.

To be clear, both iHP and Rio have major firmware updates in the pipeline, iHP will eventually support on the fly playlisting, and Rio will support a USB Mass Storage Controller (MSC). IIRC the Karma also supports M3U playlists (winamp) through RMML, which is what you'd be using anyway.

Interface wise, the Karma strictly supports an ID3 tag database, the iHP supports both ID3 and a file tree structure. However, the database implementation on the iHP is not very good from my understanding. I have found that almost everyone who has extensively used both players will say that the Karma is by far easier to use and much more intuitive.

On the sound quality side, the iHP has a line-out and an optical out on the unit, however from my understanding neither is 'great' but not bad either. The Karma has a dock with a line out, but most importantly it has a 5-band parametric EQ meaning that you can tailor the sound to exactly what you want. On the 'amp' side, from my understanding they are equally powerful for driving most cans.

I would check ouy www.riovolution.com and www.misticriver.net for info on the Rio and iRiver respectively. At least at Riovolution, it is a very large and active community so please search before you post as most questions have already been asked.

 

[muchachotron]

thanks, i'll look at those sites. your reply was very detailed, i appreciate it. i rely more on file names than ID3 tags right now with my music (though that could change once i start using a portable player), so perhaps the ihp-120 is more appropriate in my case. i do like the idea of the on-the-fly playlist generation of the karma, though. the ihp also seems to have better recording capabilities, which is another function i'm after. i wish an hd player would come out with the recording abilities that are common in md recorders (volume adjustment while recording, real-time level meters).

 

[appar111]

Edvard-
Even though you might be able to use the Karma through ethernet with a Mac, you would still need a PC to do the (rather important) firmware updates to the Karma, correct?

So once you download RMML to your Mac, you just connect the Karma to your Mac via an ethernet cable, and then use RMML to drag and drop songs, etc. to the Karma?

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

yes appar, that is correct that you need a PC to do a firmware update, however, VirtualPC for the Mac, and VMware for Linux have both proven to work reliably as an alternative. Pending the USB MSC firmware update, it should not matter which OS you are using. It is an issue with doing the update over ethernet, not the OS itself IIRC.

In reality, 'most' new Karmas should have the most recent firmware anyways, plus it only takes a couple minutes to borrow someone else's PC to do a quick update.

As far as using File Names, it is what many people are 'used' to, but in reality, you will find that most players will start going to an ID3 system as it is much more powerful in your ability to search, sort etc. As such, if you have all your music files in a set 'file' format, ie [e:\mp3s\artist\album\track number - track name.mp3] etc, there are many programs out there (The Godfather is one of my favorites) that will use a 'common' file/folder structure and generate ID3 information based on the file/folder mask.

Coupled with the ID3 tag system, the Karma employs what is called Rio DJ, it essentially tracks your listening habits to auto-generate playlists such as "Forgotten Gems" which would be songs you haven't listened to in a long time etc.

If you are concerned about doing recordings, go with the iRiver (although I have heard that if you do 'serious' recordings it isn't "that" great, but I have also heard that it works well, so YMMV)

The iHP also includes a very nice LCD remote which the Karma does not (no remote at all, although there is a port, so should a remote appear for the Karma2, it could very well be backwards compatible). Some people consider this a deal breaker, others could care less, I think it is a 'nice' feature, but not crucial by any means. In case you couldn't tell I do have a Karma which I love, and I have taken it snowboarding and have done fine with that even without a remote.

As far as 'gimicky' things go, the Karma will mimick "VU meters" on the display, and you can also set the dock to 'pulse' to the beat of the music which is damn cool.

If you want 'oodles' of features go with the iRiver, if you are looking for the most flexibility with sound and playlists, go with the Karma.