No difference in sound when trying various amps??!?!?!
Nov 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM Post #16 of 82

joseph69

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Once again…sounds like you would like a nice warm sounding pure tube amp. 
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Nov 28, 2014 at 1:18 AM Post #18 of 82

ProtegeManiac

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  Honestly I'm just looking for more refinement and detail.
and maybe a blacker sound stage (I'm sure thats what a good DAC comes in hand for...)

 
If you're comparing a Modi to a smartphone's analog out then the Schiit will be faaaaaar ahead of it (not to mention the analog output will have less distortion than an output from an integrated audio chip), however the jump from Modi to Bifrost isn't going to be as huge for $250+ as the jump from say a computer to Modi spending $100.
 
  Yup I was pretty crazy how things sounded and yes it was a graphic EQ I used on my computer

 
Not sure what PC players use parametric EQs, but I use NeutronMusicPlayer on my Android. DSP effects go through the digital output. Tames the excess bass on the HD600 well enough as well as flattening the midrange to treble. Note that I never use a too narrow Q factor (which is why I would rather flatten the bass on my HD600 than get the HE400i with flatter bass but problematic peaks and valleys right next to each other in the treble-midrange area) or attenuation beyond +/-6dB either - anytime you do both of that it might sound even more unnatural than before you applied the EQ.
 
 
I was going to have a friend make me good interconnects using Double-Helix Cables Nucleotide wires that are said to be "neutral" lol

 
How much are those? General rule is if the cost of the cable plus resell value of whatever it's connecting at either end can upgrade an active component or transducer, you're better off doing just that. No sense in not upgrading a $399 headphone but then throwing a $300 cable at it. Look up Blue Jeans Cable - you can get a Belden cable terminated with really solid plugs for under $50 if you only need roughly 1ft.
 
Of course if you can get the conductors cheap (or free, like if your friend has spares too short for what he'd need them for) then those won't be a problem.
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 1:22 AM Post #19 of 82

money4me247

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lol cables will make less of a sonic difference than amps/dacs at an even higher price point. dont waste ur money, and if you do have that much extra money, just upgrade your headphones. lol
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 2:28 AM Post #20 of 82

Cobaltius

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Well I already have a good amp and DAC why not spend a little bit of some money on cables here on there. I'm not really interested in getting a new amp or headphone.
 
I just need minor improvements and I'm desperate for that sonic difference that is so subtle.
If I'm not satisfied I will return or sell them
 
I'm stupid and I like cables...
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 2:38 AM Post #21 of 82

Cobaltius

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If you're comparing a Modi to a smartphone's analog out then the Schiit will be faaaaaar ahead of it (not to mention the analog output will have less distortion than an output from an integrated audio chip), however the jump from Modi to Bifrost isn't going to be as huge for $250+ as the jump from say a computer to Modi spending $100.
 
 
Not sure what PC players use parametric EQs, but I use NeutronMusicPlayer on my Android. DSP effects go through the digital output. Tames the excess bass on the HD600 well enough as well as flattening the midrange to treble. Note that I never use a too narrow Q factor (which is why I would rather flatten the bass on my HD600 than get the HE400i with flatter bass but problematic peaks and valleys right next to each other in the treble-midrange area) or attenuation beyond +/-6dB either - anytime you do both of that it might sound even more unnatural than before you applied the EQ.
 
 
How much are those? General rule is if the cost of the cable plus resell value of whatever it's connecting at either end can upgrade an active component or transducer, you're better off doing just that. No sense in not upgrading a $399 headphone but then throwing a $300 cable at it. Look up Blue Jeans Cable - you can get a Belden cable terminated with really solid plugs for under $50 if you only need roughly 1ft.
 
Of course if you can get the conductors cheap (or free, like if your friend has spares too short for what he'd need them for) then those won't be a problem.

For the interconnects they would cost $2.75 a foot. OCC Copper too
I'd also need the plugs and shielding so your talking about $30-40
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 9:46 AM Post #22 of 82

ProtegeManiac

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  For the interconnects they would cost $2.75 a foot. OCC Copper too
I'd also need the plugs and shielding so your talking about $30-40

 
That could be $2.75 per foot per conductor, so double at least for that, plus the shielding. Not sure though if their "shielding" is actual shielding that can keep out airborne interference, but then again I personally have never had that problem (even when using my phone as a flashlight with my Audience cables connected, or now, my Kimber silver plated copper conductors). Overall though the price is good, not much more than BJC (maybe cheaper actually if you don't have to spend on shipping). 

The Kimber-Neutrik Reans (soldered with Mundorf soldering tin) I'm using now cost me the equivalent of around US$25 over here, including shipping. DIY-er was kind enough to just charge me for a single 1ft run since he uses the Kimbers with the uniform color jacket; the dealer near me sells Mundorfs but the problem with them aside from the price is that they only have the color-coded jackets, so you have to buy two runs and at a minimum of 1meter. Almost went for the cheapest Audioquests but came across the ad for the Kimbers in a local forum; managed to save around $11 too. If the local pro-audio store didn't run out of StarQuads I'd have used those instead - I used to get them for around $3.75/1m.
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 11:40 AM Post #23 of 82

teofilrocks

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Maybe I'm a bit daft, but if you can't hear a difference between different DAC/amp components and your phone output (and there's no shame in that, you hear what you hear) interconnects and different components likely won't change that.

If you want something more from your sound, I'd put money into trying other headphones instead. If your'e overall satisfied with your sound, be satisfied, as hard as that is.
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 12:43 PM Post #24 of 82

Cobaltius

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That could be $2.75 per foot per conductor, so double at least for that, plus the shielding. Not sure though if their "shielding" is actual shielding that can keep out airborne interference, but then again I personally have never had that problem (even when using my phone as a flashlight with my Audience cables connected, or now, my Kimber silver plated copper conductors). Overall though the price is good, not much more than BJC (maybe cheaper actually if you don't have to spend on shipping). 

The Kimber-Neutrik Reans (soldered with Mundorf soldering tin) I'm using now cost me the equivalent of around US$25 over here, including shipping. DIY-er was kind enough to just charge me for a single 1ft run since he uses the Kimbers with the uniform color jacket; the dealer near me sells Mundorfs but the problem with them aside from the price is that they only have the color-coded jackets, so you have to buy two runs and at a minimum of 1meter. Almost went for the cheapest Audioquests but came across the ad for the Kimbers in a local forum; managed to save around $11 too. If the local pro-audio store didn't run out of StarQuads I'd have used those instead - I used to get them for around $3.75/1m.

Carbon Fiber?
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 1:25 PM Post #25 of 82

Delirious Lab

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+1 on the tube suggestions.  Other than tubes, I don't see how you can make an obviously noticeable change to your kit's sound without saying goodbye to a lot of money.
 
I too was looking for a good bang-for-buck improvement over my HD600 / E07K setup, so I got the Schiit Vali and man it makes an addictive combo with the HD600.  I've had it for three weeks and am starting to be seriously sleep-deprived.
 
You say you want neutral, well Vali doesn't sound un-neutral to me.  If there is a coloration, I have a hard time saying in what way - it does something to the FR that tickles my endorphin glands just right, yet I'm still able to listen analytically if I want to, and I perceive the sound as neutral.  YMMV, I don't know if it's a difference you will like but it's one you will hear.  I don't know how else you could achieve that for $119 + shipping.  Why not try it?
 
You may also try something else that allows tube-rolling (which Vali doesn't - then again, your OCD may thank you for this).  Some tube amps are more colored that others.
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 1:54 PM Post #26 of 82

Cobaltius

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  +1 on the tube suggestions.  Other than tubes, I don't see how you can make an obviously noticeable change to your kit's sound without saying goodbye to a lot of money.
 
I too was looking for a good bang-for-buck improvement over my HD600 / E07K setup, so I got the Schiit Vali and man it makes an addictive combo with the HD600.  I've had it for three weeks and am starting to be seriously sleep-deprived.
 
You say you want neutral, well Vali doesn't sound un-neutral to me.  If there is a coloration, I have a hard time saying in what way - it does something to the FR that tickles my endorphin glands just right, yet I'm still able to listen analytically if I want to, and I perceive the sound as neutral.  YMMV, I don't know if it's a difference you will like but it's one you will hear.  I don't know how else you could achieve that for $119 + shipping.  Why not try it?
 
You may also try something else that allows tube-rolling (which Vali doesn't - then again, your OCD may thank you for this).  Some tube amps are more colored that others.

Hah thanks man, I'm going to stick with my Setup and upgrade my cables and DAC and maybe eventually in the future I will maybe save up for the Vali just to use if I'm having a bad day or a boring day that I could use for excitement (Secondary amp if you will)
I'm pretty happy with my sound its just I'm looking for just a tiny bit more detail and refinement with a tinsy winsy bit less bright sound (Not rolled off dark just maybe half a decibel).
Once I get all my crap, I should be settled. And If I get bored with my sound in the long run, Schiit Vali/Lyr time! 
 
Nov 28, 2014 at 2:16 PM Post #27 of 82

derbigpr

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Brown diamonds - speakers in rough toe-in angle; red - conventional headphones; blue - angled headphone driver mounts/earpads (AKG K701/2/12/812, Beyer T1, Sennheiser HD800, etc). HD600 with the rear of the pads against the earlobes for example is closer to blue than red.

 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
I just want to add that simply having angled drivers will not simulate speakers in any way. First of all, the angle is very slight, nowhere near the angle you'd get from properly placed speakers. I have the T1's, and even if I put them on backwards, which, if it made a big difference, should totally ruin the sound, it doesn't ruin it, the imaging is still 90% there, despite drivers being angled backwards. Center image is still exactly as strong as when wearing the headphones correctly, that's because the central image actually has nothing to do with the angle of the driver on a headphone. Hearing doesn't work that way.  The way you distinguish the direction of the sound is by differences in phase, loudness and changes in certain frequency areas, and those differences are all received by the cochlear nerve nucleus in the brain stem and then sent to the part of the brain cortex that makes sense out of that information, basically giving you an impression of where the sound is coming from and how far away it is. Phase difference comes from the fact that a sound wave hits one your of eardrums a bit sooner than the other, if the source of the sound is not exactly in center. When it comes to loudness, it's about the same things, the sound wave that's to the left ear from a source on your left side for example will sound slightly louder on the left, and will be more direct, and on the right you'll be hearing the sound reflected from a wall on your right side.  This pretty much takes care of the left-right-center imaging. The forwards and backwards comes from the direction of the sound wave.  Depending on where it's coming from, it will hit the earlobe at different angles, and it will hit different areas of it, resulting in different changes to the sound that finally enters the ear canal. That is what helps you distinguish whether things are coming from in front of you, from behind, from under you or from above you.  Technically, angled drivers should simulate that. They do, but to a very slight extent, down to the point where it virtually makes no difference. My T1's put on backwards move the soundstage to the rear slightly, but not in the sense that I hear sounds coming from behind me, just more to the sides, that's because the angle is too slight, and the earcup is too small to actually accommodate a driver that would be angled at a large enough angle, and away enough from the ear to make a massive difference. There are headphones without angled drivers that have better imaging than headphones with angled drivers. I found that to be the case many times in my experience with countless headphones. On top of that, you have the issue with recordings, which are made for stereo speakers in 99% of cases, which means that there is no build-in crossfeed in them, like on binaural recordings, and therefore headphones simply theoretically cannot do imaging very well. A pair of 300 dollar bookshelf speakers properly placed has far superior imaging to my T1's, in every single way. The center image and depth they create is simply unreachable by headphones. It's simply how it is, and it will never ever change on headphones.  The only way to simulate a real soundstage on headphones is with a crossfeed (not very effective most of the time) or some DSP (not done properly most of the time). 
 
The only thing that we can hope for at this moment is the balance of drivers. A lot of headphones have poor channel balance, where certain frequencies sound slightly louder on the left channel than on the right. Basically, the frequency responses of both drivers don't match up perfectly, and that's the case in many headphones, including flagships. That is what ruins the feeling of center image the most, and it makes the imaging worse in general...instead of giving you a sharp center, it's becomes muddy, diluted...watered down.  
 

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