Nice guys finish last . . . don't they? / unspoken feelings
Aug 18, 2004 at 2:39 AM Post #46 of 77

Elec

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The idea is not to be a jerk to get girls, but to see what it is that girls like about jerks and then do that. Girls don't like jerks because they treat them badly. They like jerks because those guys are strong and confident, they have their own lives, they don't put up with BS, and they present a challenge because they don't make it obvious that the girl has them wrapped around her little finger. "Nice guys" don't do these things naturally. They bend over backwards to do favors for the girl and let themselves be walked all over. They always say "What do you think we should do?" instead of "Meet me for coffee Friday at 8". They put off a vibe of being lucky to be near the girl, rather than the other way around or at least that she's not the only thing on your plate. If you can be strong and confident, have your own life, don't let her take advantage of you or pull BS, and be a little hard to get while still being nice and treating the girl well, you'll have much better luck. A girl would rather have a nice guy than a jerk. But she'd rather have a confident man (even if he is a dick to her) than a wimpy pushover boy (who is kind and generous to no end). Get it?

Also about the height thing (this applies to other traits as well). When a girl says she likes tall guys, it isn't specifically the tallness she likes, it's how a tall guy makes her feel. This is good news, since you can't do anything to make yourself taller. What you can do, is ask the girl what it is she likes about tall guys. Don't settle for a crap answer like "Cause he should be taller than me!", make sure you get feelings (like "Tall guys make me feel safe"). Then what you can do is subtly demonstrate with your actions and words that you can make her feel safe. If you do this properly, it won't matter that you're not tall because you've given her what she really wanted (the feeling of safety) rather than what she said she wanted (height). You can apply this to any other trait you want. Step 1 is find out what she wants/likes in terms of how things make her feel. Step 2 is find a way to give her those feelings and associate them with you.
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 8:41 AM Post #47 of 77

jlo mein

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My only advice is never leave yourself with the question "what if?"....

always try...its better to have tried and failed than to not have tried at all...

no wait...that conflicts with yoda's wisdom
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...do or do not, there is no try...

so....always do!!!
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Aug 18, 2004 at 9:32 AM Post #48 of 77

ampgalore

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Insightful as always. Being "nice," that's exactly what I have been doing all my life, and every single of them have walked all over me like I am a piece of cr*p.

I finally decided to stop all this BS. When I finish my training and get a real job, I'll turn the tables on them and let them deal with my cr*p.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Elec
The idea is not to be a jerk to get girls, but to see what it is that girls like about jerks and then do that. Girls don't like jerks because they treat them badly. They like jerks because those guys are strong and confident, they have their own lives, they don't put up with BS, and they present a challenge because they don't make it obvious that the girl has them wrapped around her little finger. "Nice guys" don't do these things naturally. They bend over backwards to do favors for the girl and let themselves be walked all over. They always say "What do you think we should do?" instead of "Meet me for coffee Friday at 8". They put off a vibe of being lucky to be near the girl, rather than the other way around or at least that she's not the only thing on your plate. If you can be strong and confident, have your own life, don't let her take advantage of you or pull BS, and be a little hard to get while still being nice and treating the girl well, you'll have much better luck. A girl would rather have a nice guy than a jerk. But she'd rather have a confident man (even if he is a dick to her) than a wimpy pushover boy (who is kind and generous to no end). Get it?

Also about the height thing (this applies to other traits as well). When a girl says she likes tall guys, it isn't specifically the tallness she likes, it's how a tall guy makes her feel. This is good news, since you can't do anything to make yourself taller. What you can do, is ask the girl what it is she likes about tall guys. Don't settle for a crap answer like "Cause he should be taller than me!", make sure you get feelings (like "Tall guys make me feel safe"). Then what you can do is subtly demonstrate with your actions and words that you can make her feel safe. If you do this properly, it won't matter that you're not tall because you've given her what she really wanted (the feeling of safety) rather than what she said she wanted (height). You can apply this to any other trait you want. Step 1 is find out what she wants/likes in terms of how things make her feel. Step 2 is find a way to give her those feelings and associate them with you.



 
Aug 18, 2004 at 9:47 AM Post #49 of 77

dd3mon

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Feel like you can't get a date? Unpopular? Want more social standing?

You have to work at it. Believe it or not, most of those in the "popular" crowd (those getting the dates you seek) were not born popular and chick magnets. Popularity is something you have to work at. There was an EXCELLENT article posted on head-fi several months about about the dynamics of high school and the clicks it creates. Basically, for all but a few genuinely beautiful or ugly individuals - your popularity level is determined by how much effort you put into it. The unpopular guys choose to put their efforts towards other things. Video games, reading, studying, listening to headphone setups that cost as much as your buddies used Chevy Nova -- these things are more important to "geeks" than popularity.
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The thing is, that the unpopular people don't always realize there is a choice. Once you know the rules to the game, it's easy to play - but it's still alot of work.

Want to get dates and be popular? Work out, alot. Get seriously buff. Buy new clothes, get a hair cut, go out to popular hang-out spots, make an effort to be more social and talk to those once thought unapproachable. Play a sport, buy a fancy car, get a tan. These are simple things, but not easy. Being popular is ALOT of WORK. Physical exercise, learning new skills, making money to spend on clothes, shoes, hair products, sports equipment, cars, taking girls out, etc.. All this is alot of work. Enough so that unconsiously or not, many people choose not to do it, therefore these people join those dateless in high school and picked on by jocks. After school is over, the game is still played, the rules just get easier to play by since everyone has more to manage than just their popularity.

I've basically plagarised some important points from that article posted a while back, if anyone can find it please repost it! It was a superb view into the underlying concepts of popularity.

I went through high school slightly overweight and spending my free time on the computer, playing laser tag, listening to music, and spending time with my friends who were on the not-exactly-popular list as well. I wanted a change, so I spent the last semester of my senior year and summer following making one. I went on a diet, did some exercise, replaced my glasses with contacts and poof. First semester of college, my girl "friends" from high school suddenly wanted to be my girlfriends. I started going out with a girl I'd been very good friends with for a couple years of high school (but definitely just friends...) - and I'm still with her 4 years later.

Set an obtainable goal of where you want to be, and go there. You can be whoever you want to be. And BTW- bad boys might get the girls for a while, but later in life it's the nice guys who keep them (while the guy who rode a motorcycle in high school still drives it to work at McDonald's). In high school people are shallow (especially those on the top of the social ladder), but after that people tend to gain some foresight. The nice-guy vs. bad-boy all but disappears and intelligence becomes a plus instead of a minus.

-dd3mon
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 9:57 AM Post #50 of 77

pbirkett

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I'm going to be blunt here - nice guys are always going to be seen by girls to be boring. And thats why you struggle. Dont be such a doormat, and dont let people walk all over you. Stick up for yourself, try and put yourself forward as being more bad - you are always going to look more interesting.

I went through a phase of being nice, and had no luck whatsoever during that time. Now I just go back to being a right c*nt
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Aug 18, 2004 at 12:22 PM Post #51 of 77

hero zero

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I think it's all about confidence, something that I've got none of.....

I don't really know what else to say...except from my personal experience, there was this girl that I cared about and was nice to her, but she went out with guys who made passes at her on the bus...

*shrug* so in large part, i think confidence is a large factor, I could never figure out what to say to her, so I guess I appeared boring...then again, sometimes it's the girls you're going after. They make their own choices, and in my case, she made the choice to go out with creeps she met on the bus (she's done this twice and both times, these 'relationships' have ended in some disaster), and there's nothing much you can do or say to change them....they have to learn themselves....

um..that's my take on the whole thing...hopefully I've contributed something, but I doubt I have
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 1:17 PM Post #52 of 77

pbirkett

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Have some of you guys ever thought about internet dating. Remember, for every guy who lacks confidence and struggles to meet the right partner, there will be a girl who is just the same, I guarantee it. And the likelihood is, you will find like minded people on such sites.

Why not give it a try, what have you to lose?
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 3:52 PM Post #53 of 77

jpburton5150

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yeah, i should reinforce the fact that working out does help a lot! it all started in a sort of odd way, last year my little brother was doing swing dancing and he was whining and complaining that he wouldnt know anyone, so i stepped in and did it as well. ok so after that the instructers were like hey we're doing this ballet production this year, called camelot. so yeah i agreed to do that as well (my brother was too young). and thaat involved a lot of skills work. i didnt have to prance around and do all that stuff but i had to lift girls the whole time. and before i knew it i got really really strong for my short stature. and trust me, lifting girls is a lot more exciting than lifting weights
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. so yeah after i built up the muscles i kept them up by doing pushups and stuff whenever im bored. and it has helped immensly, you have no idea. and its really suprising too, because im a senior and still shorter than the average freshman, plus the rest of my family is all geeks/nerds and doesnt excel in sports/athletics at all. so yeah, work out, it helps, although this is probably more of a highschool trick than college...
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 4:08 PM Post #54 of 77

Jahn

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Nice guys don't finish last - I married a keeper, and I'm super Duper Nice! But women love confidence, so feel free to put yourself out there without being arrogant, and eventually some gal out there will notice. BTW with that first post story, the girl definitely was pulling the jealous route, but since she ran into your brick wall answer, she obviously did the "your loss" thing. It helps to have your feminine radar on - don't be afraid of knowing "what a girl wants" - after all, Nice Guys are sensitive too! (without being pushovers - remember - confidence!)


- Dr. Phil
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 5:25 PM Post #55 of 77

redshifter

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nice guys
sometimes a "nice guy" is just someone who is passive-aggressive. i.e., hides their true feelings, puts on a "nice guy" face, but has all the bad urges most guys do, and these feelings come out later in an unhealthy way, such as resentment.

jerks
women are attracted to "jerks" because often they are seen as the "alpha male". i.e., the quarterback who beats up on the "nice guys".

this is for what it's worth, so good luck on your quest and remember women are human beings, and have good and bad attributes just like us guys.
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 5:29 PM Post #56 of 77

MD1032

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For me, it's a similar struggle. There have been a few times in my life where I've felt a certain way about a certain girl, but just can't do anything. Anyway, most of what I feel right now I blame on hormones, so I've basically told myself "NO!" when it comes to girls. In my right mind, this is an excellent decision, and much smarter than the ones my peers are making (what with breaking up and all that garbage), but then again hormones cause nearly uncontrollable desires sometimes (no, get your mind out of the gutter!) to have a girlfriend, just because, but I know I wouldn't be happy with one unless we truly were friends. Also, I've convinced myself for the time being that I'm not going to get into marriage later on in life (of course, I don't exactly know what love is, either).

The jist of it is: If I didn't have hormones, I'd consider this entire girl buisness complete garbage, and do, when I'm not under the influence (of girls
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).
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 5:52 PM Post #58 of 77
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There is no trick to getting women nor do all women want to same thing. Anyone who says different, doesn't know what they are talking about. YES, some women really LOVE super nice guys, but perhaps they are not the types that you want?
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Just be yourself instead of trying to act like what you think they want you to act.

Also, if you feel that you "need" a girlfriend, then I think you are asking way too much on her part. No woman will ever complete you. You have to do that on your own.
 
Aug 18, 2004 at 6:53 PM Post #59 of 77

Elec

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Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter
nice guys
sometimes a "nice guy" is just someone who is passive-aggressive. i.e., hides their true feelings, puts on a "nice guy" face, but has all the bad urges most guys do, and these feelings come out later in an unhealthy way, such as resentment.

jerks
women are attracted to "jerks" because often they are seen as the "alpha male". i.e., the quarterback who beats up on the "nice guys".

this is for what it's worth, so good luck on your quest and remember women are human beings, and have good and bad attributes just like us guys.



That's a very good point. The guys who are considered jerks or asses often have that alpha male personality, which is really what the women are attracted to. They stand out in a crowd (even if it is in a bad way), they do whatever they want to, they're not afraid to demonstrate or go after what they want. The nice guys, on the other hand, are worried about how others will see them or interpret their actions, so they hold back. The standard sentiment is "Gosh, I really like her but I can't be too obvious because I'll scare her!" That's so totally wrong because if you don't make it obvious you're interested in her, she'll never know, and you'll never have a chance! The primary difference here is that the nice guy will beat around the bush for a month trying to get to know the girl (and ending up in the friend zone) while the jerk will say "I get what I want, and I want her". So he goes up to her, makes it very obvious he's interested, probably tries to kiss her that same night, and gets the girl. He may be a jerk, but at least she knows where his interests lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KR...
Just be yourself instead of trying to act like what you think they want you to act.


This reminds me of something funny I read once. The question was "Everyone says I should just be myself. Should I really just be myself?" The answer was "If being yourself is getting you the women you're interested in without much effort, then yes. Otherwise, you might want to think about 'enhancing' yourself." The point here is that if you're a woman-getting pimp, you're not even thinking about being yourself because it all happens naturally for you and you don't care. If you're wondering about being yourself, it's because you've had problems with that and it's just not working. Sure, every dog has his day, and luck may work out for you one of these years. But that's a pretty small consolation. It makes more sense to take a look at what does and doesn't work and change your strategy accordingly. I'm not saying lie to girls, but there's a lot one can do as far as changing strategy or approach to be more successful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett
I'm going to be blunt here - nice guys are always going to be seen by girls to be boring. And thats why you struggle. Dont be such a doormat, and dont let people walk all over you. Stick up for yourself, try and put yourself forward as being more bad - you are always going to look more interesting.


Yep. That's the problem is that if you're a "nice guy", most girls will get bored with you very quickly. There's just no challenge if you give yourself to her and let her walk all over you. You don't have to be bad, you just have to assert yourself. If she demands that you do something ridiculous for her, tell her no. If she tries to pull BS games on you, call her on it. If you think she's got a nice ass, tell her. If she seems to get mad about it, laugh. I think secretly almost all girls want a guy they can bend to their will. If you give in on day 4 of the relationship, she's done (and so are you). If you continue to be a little aloof and independent, she'll keep after you forever because the challenge never goes away. Well ok, maybe if you marry her
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Aug 18, 2004 at 7:07 PM Post #60 of 77

The_Mac

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I'm a nice guy, and I have no issues finding tail when I need it. (but I'm with someone steady for the minute, so I have to settle down for a while).

Some good things to keep in mind.

Confidence is key. Everyone has said it so far, but it's true. Saying "I think you're beautiful and I want to go home with you tonight" is much better than saying "Maybe if you're not doing anything maybe we could get together sometime for something?". (by the bye, use that first line on girls in the 4.5-6.5 / 10 range, they're not used to being called beautiful, it shocks them off balance and they're playing into you instead of the other way around). Also, if a woman is truly good looking, don't tell her. Don't even check her out. Talk to her like she's an average looking girl but with a great personality. Most girls that are good looking think that they have a personality but nobody ever talks about it, they just concentrate on "my god you're beautiful" and "damn girl, you've got the whole package".

So confidence. It's a HUGE part.

Other small tips that I've found are key:
Personal hygiene is more important than looks. If you're always clean, clothes free from wrinkles, have a faint cologne smell, you'll go far with women. They LIKE a little hint of AXE or a nice cologne, and a sweet breath. Brush religiously, take a shower as often as possible, and never let dirty laundry accumulate, the smell migrates to other clothing.

And remember to SMILE.
 

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