Ni-MH or Ni-CD
Aug 30, 2002 at 5:52 PM Post #31 of 44
Deep Cycling is just draining a charged battery til it's dead.
In the case of a PDA, do what you must to keep the data. I would not worry about deep cycling the PDA, just use it as you want, and remember that rechargables don't last forever, so keep your data backed up. Someday you will be replacing that rechargable, so save some $$$ up.
 
Aug 31, 2002 at 6:13 AM Post #32 of 44
Hmm, a new development here- I was at the store today, and saw these "rechargeable alkaline" batteries? Does anyone know anything about these things- like how they work and whether they are any good? Do they require a special charger?

Also, I saw a 6-pack of Duracell AA's on clearance for $1.80 a pack. I thought this was a pretty darn good price, am I right?

Ruahrc
 
Aug 31, 2002 at 6:36 AM Post #33 of 44
Quote:

Originally posted by Ruahrc
Hmm, a new development here- I was at the store today, and saw these "rechargeable alkaline" batteries? Does anyone know anything about these things- like how they work and whether they are any good? Do they require a special charger?

Also, I saw a 6-pack of Duracell AA's on clearance for $1.80 a pack. I thought this was a pretty darn good price, am I right?

Ruahrc


These are probably the RAYOVAC rechargable alkalines.
They need a special charger.

I have tried these, and they were very finnicky. If you discharge them too much, which some devices may do, you ruin the battery.
I bought four AA's and they lasted about two charges. Big waste of money.

6-pack of Duracell AA's for $1.80 is outstanding.
The cheapest place for decent batteries (though not as good as top brands) is the Walgreens brand, especially when they have a sale.
 
Sep 2, 2002 at 6:11 AM Post #34 of 44
Second fredpb on rechargeable alkalines. Waste of money, period.
they do need a special charger and will last for no more than 20-30 cycles no matter what you do.

Ruahrc, I think for your wireless mouse cheap alkalines will be the best solution.
 
Sep 2, 2002 at 1:54 PM Post #35 of 44
Quote:

Originally posted by Ruahrc
Hmm, a new development here- I was at the store today, and saw these "rechargeable alkaline" batteries? Does anyone know anything about these things- like how they work and whether they are any good? Do they require a special charger?

Also, I saw a 6-pack of Duracell AA's on clearance for $1.80 a pack. I thought this was a pretty darn good price, am I right?

Ruahrc


I used to dabble in those rechargeable alkalines, too. But they're at best a compromise between conventional rechargeables and regular alkalines.

PROS:
-Doesn't require charging before use
-Lasts longer than any other rechargeables on lower-drain equipment (at least early in their life)
-Can be recharged up to a few dozen times

CONS:
-Can't be recharged anywhere near as many times as conventional rechargeables
-Requires a special charger
-Doesn't last as long as regular alkalines between charges, even when new
-Can't be discharged fully, lest you kill the batteries
-Battery life between charges is more significantly shortened with each recharge

And the 6-pack Duracell AAs for $1.80? Well, that packaging was a special promotion of a few months ago, when you would have bought 4 AAs for regular price ($3.00 to $4.50), and you got 2 additional AAs for free. But the 6-packs are on clearance for that low $1.80 price, because the manufacturer had discontinued that package (nope, they haven't discontinued the batteries).
 
Sep 3, 2002 at 6:19 AM Post #36 of 44
Being a design student my mouse gets an abusive amount of use. (Not to mention other less productive activities) I have the Microsoft mouse your talking about and I have to change the batteries fairly often (the optical wireless mice have battery life no where near the life of conventional wireless mice, but optical is just so much more convenient not having to clean it with tweezers every other day) so I would say definitely pick up some kind of rechargeable, even if only to always have a battery if you need it. That said if you only give your mouse moderate use and don't leave your computer on 24/7 (or have the damn mouse attached to a powered hub) it may not be economical in the long run to use rechargeables but it sure is convenient. (I picked up those grandcell batteries from ebay, not the best but they are cheap enough. They are rechargeable alks. so the do suffer from the problems previously mentioned but for around 10 bucks for 4 batteries and a charger the will due)
 
Sep 3, 2002 at 9:19 AM Post #37 of 44
why do you have to use cordless??
confused.gif
confused.gif
 
HiBy Stay updated on HiBy at their facebook, website or email (icons below). Stay updated on HiBy at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/hibycom https://store.hiby.com/ service@hiby.com
Sep 4, 2002 at 5:14 AM Post #38 of 44
My corded optical died after being used into the ground. The new wireless seemed like a good idea at the time [laugh]. The wireless has turned out to be a pretty nice mouse though and almost as precise as the corded version. I just switch to my beast of an aging calcomp tablet when I need pin point accuracy. [That has great battery life]
 
Sep 4, 2002 at 5:42 AM Post #39 of 44
The way I see it, you don't need cordless unless you're going to control your computer from across the living room or something.
 
HiBy Stay updated on HiBy at their facebook, website or email (icons below). Stay updated on HiBy at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/hibycom https://store.hiby.com/ service@hiby.com
Sep 7, 2002 at 8:08 AM Post #40 of 44
I think I'll swipe up some of those duracells on clearance, (hehe we had to take them down so they're all sitting on a cart in a corner of the store... about 10 packs) and when they run out I'll see if I'm in the mood for buying some rechargeables.

Why cordless? I dunno, really. First of all though, the MS cordless optical explorer hands down beats any other mouse I've ever used/seen/felt as far as comfort goes (IMHO, at least). That is mostly why I bought the mouse in the first place. The cordless part is pretty cool- makes for a very nice and clean desktop. I found the accuracy to be sufficient for what I do- (People have complained of it's lack of extra-fine accuracy, i.e. pixel by pixel level accuracy) and gaming doesn't seem to be a problem: I did some quick crash-tests in the games I had (CS, JKII, Black and White) and found it to be just fine. I'm not the extreme hardcore gamer, though. At the moment the cordless is pretty cool since I have my comp hooked up to my TV and so I used to have to string a PS/2 extension all the way out to my coffee table- but now I can browse, type, game (
biggrin.gif
), (and of course listen to music!) comfortably from my couch with no hassle.

SP00N- I have a question on the mouse's battery meter- does it give a continuous gradation from full to empty or does it jump from "good" to "replace" in one step? The little picture of the battery is still all green, (after about 1.5 weeks usage) but will it stay like that until the battery level is "weaker" at which point it will jump down to the 1/3 position? I guess I'll find out in due time but I'm still curious.

Ruahrc
 
Oct 12, 2002 at 8:00 AM Post #41 of 44
I sent you a private message ages ago, don't remeber what exactly was in it so just in case I didn't answer this, it turns yellow and then red with a popup warning claiming you have 3 weeks and then 1 week etc. Hope that helps and check your private messages.
 
Mar 4, 2003 at 7:39 AM Post #42 of 44
Just digging up an old thread about rechargeable batteries:

"For long term storage it is recommended to store them flat actually, since the very slow self discharge can also induce some crystal formation."

That's true for NiCd batteries, blr. But it's not recommended at all to store NiMH batteries flat, even for long-term storage. Instead, for long-term storage NiMH batteries should be stored with about 40 percent charge still left in them.

"...NiCd and NiMH batteries should not be stored FULL??"

Not if you're going to store batteries for more than a few days to a week, Joe Bloggs.

"Generally for such low drain devices (mause remote clock etc) rechargeables are not recommended. You wont save much money and the low drain plus self discharge is not so good for the cells eighter."

Very true, blr.

"About the slow overnight charger, it is a farly safe device, meaning that it won't destroy your cells quickly, but it is not the best solution. First of all, these are usually "dumb"chargers, having only a timer to terminate the charging. No matter how deep your cells are discharged (see below) the charger always keeps the current on for say 14 hours, means partially discharged cells get overcharged. Second, rechargeables (except SLA) generally respond better to quick charging. The slower the charging (and discharging) the larger the particles that form on the electrodes and particularly on the Ni one. I won't go deep into this, but NiCd and NiMH generally charge better at currents between C/3 and C. The problem with quick charging is that you have to have reliable charge termination method. Quick charger with only timer is BAD. You need a charger that will properly sense the battery state of charge and terminate once the battery has reached full charge. -dV technique is fairly good and modern chargers can apply it even for NiMH batteries, which have lower voltage drop at the end of charge compared to NiCd."

One drawback of -dV termination is that such termination only works properly with chargers that deliver at least C/3 in charging current to a given battery. (Slow chargers can't use -dV termination, because that feature won't work correctly or at all at such low charge rates. DUH.) IMO, the best charger is a fast charger that uses a sophisticated means of charge termination and negative-pulse charging. For NiMH batteries, slow chargers are almost as bad for such batteries as fast chargers with only a timer for charge termination, because NiMH batteries have a low tolerance for overcharging, and the slow chargers can be overcharging NiMH batteries even though the cells are cool to the touch!

"IMO, the best plug in charger on the market today... Charges 1-4 AA or AAA cells while separately monitors each cell. You can charge different cells together. Works with both NiCd and NiMH chemistry... It ain't exactly cheap but it's worth every cent."

I agree with the recommendation of the type of charger mentioned in the above quote, and any similar high-quality charger on the market. This "independent-charging-circuits-for-each-cell" setup reduces the risk of having one bad cell spoil the entire set of batteries. Chargers that require cells to be charged in sets of more than one and chargers that have only one charging circuit that's commonly shared between two or more cells will get the entire charge cycle wrong: With this setup, either the stronger cells become undercharged, or the weaker cells become overcharged. Either situation will eventually kill the entire set of batteries prematurely.

"Deep cycling any type of battery only shortens its life. You don't need to deep cycle your NiMh cells every time. If you don't overcharge them severely, an exercise cycle is needed once in a while (say once every 20-30 cycles)."

I agree here.

"The problem with most PCDP and other portable gear is that the in-build charging circuits are usually dumb, i.e. timer controlled. Thus you face the choice of eighter overcharge a partially discharged battery or drain it flat and charge it. In both cases the lifetime of the cells is reduced. That's why people get so short lifetimes of say their gumsticks. Not many of these expensive cells survive much more than 100 cycles, whereas if cycled properly the cell will be good for at least 200-300 cycles to nearly full capacity."

Actually, recent built-in chargers in PCDPs and other portable gear use a simple heat sensor that terminates the charge, which is better than a timer alone, but nowhere near as effective as true -dV termination. And thermistors used in such circuits have so wide of a tolerance that none that I've seen actually gets the charging job right: They either undercharge (Panasonic) or overcharge (Sony, Sharp et al) the batteries that had been designed for those portable audio devices! Furthermore, the built-in charging circuits lack reverse-pulse charging technology, increasing the likelihood of the "memory effect" building up in the cells. In other words, the built-in chargers in PCDPs and other portable audio gear are "smart" chargers - but in the most rudimentary sense.

Finally, I've read something about NiMH batteries being less than ideal for longetivity. NiMH batteries, as that article stated, won't last much more than about 300 deep charge/discharge cycles - while properly charged NiCds will last at least 1000 deep charge/discharge cycles.
 
Mar 4, 2003 at 7:10 PM Post #43 of 44
I'm also a bit facinated by rechargebles batteries. Read a lot about it. And everything is contradiction each other so much it becomes funny
biggrin.gif


What I wanted to say was that I think people tend to be too serious about the subject. They are very critical if it comes to quality of rechargebles (i.e. 50mah more) and don't ask questions when buying Alkalines. Hardly anybody knows the capacity of Alkalines when they buy them.

Rechargebles are not that much more expensive than Alkalines.
For about $15 you can buy 4 AA nimh 1800mah. For $2-$3 you have 4 Alkalines.
Do the math and you see that after 10-15 charges you earned your money back and everything you get out of them after that is a plus.
Even with a bad cheap charger you can get more than 15 charges out of your batteries so you always win.

If you think of it it's quite funny to see so much research is done by people before buying rechargebles while they never though of doing any research when buying Alkalines.

(Disclaimer;
I am talking about AA cells not expensive gumsticks or other expensive cells)
 
Mar 4, 2003 at 8:31 PM Post #44 of 44
Quote:

Originally posted by Ruahrc

SP00N- I have a question on the mouse's battery meter- does it give a continuous gradation from full to empty or does it jump from "good" to "replace" in one step? The little picture of the battery is still all green, (after about 1.5 weeks usage) but will it stay like that until the battery level is "weaker" at which point it will jump down to the 1/3 position? I guess I'll find out in due time but I'm still curious.


I use NiMH rechargeables in a cordless optical mouse. I get about three weeks use between charges, and I use the computer a lot. When the charge goes, it goes fast. The first warning I get is "battery level critical".
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top