Newbie looking to upgrade, would like recommendations
Jul 13, 2017 at 3:58 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 21

Rohly

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Howdy! New member of the forum here, (long time lurker) and relatively new to the realm of high-fidelity audio. I've been blessed with a promotion at work so I've decided to finally treat myself to some really quality audio products.

I'm currently using a set of fidelio X2's running directly to a rickety philips MCM530 bookshelf stereo, which is hooked up to my computer via USB. The X2's are the best headphones I've ever owned, truthfully. I've had a couple low-end sennheiser cans and a set of Grado SR-80i's (which sadly disintegrated) but I've run them all on this same MCM350.

I've reached a point where I'm looking for a depth and immersion in audio that I just can't squeeze out of my setup. I really like embellished vocals and natural sounding instruments and the X2's (which lest be honest, are likely being held back by the mcm530 a great deal) are just not scratching that itch. So, time for an upgrade.

I've got a budget of around 1200$, and that's for cans, amp, and dac. In my own investigation of the forums here and various reviews, I've gravitated towards the hi-fi man HE-560, the STAX 3100, and at the higher end the Audeze LCD 2. As far as amp/dacs go, I've really only looked into an Aune S6 or the Aune x7s combined with an x5s.
I like to try new things so I've really leaned into the planar magnetic / electrostatic options available. Open-Backed headphones are a must for me!

If I can trouble any fellow head-if-er's more experienced than myself, I would love some recommendations, even outside of the pieces I've mentioned.

If it helps at all, the type of music I'm usually listening to is akin to Steve Reich, Snarky Puppy, Submotion Orchestra, Oneohtrix Point Never, Lorenzo Senni, Patricia Barber.... nothing particularly bass heavy but lots of vocals and natural instruments with the occasional smattering of synths.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 4:10 PM Post #2 of 21
I can't speak much to the higher end models, I'm calling it a day and stopping with the HD650, but I've heard iffy things about the HE560. According to plenty of people, it's not typically viewed as worth the price tag because it's so close to the 400i in terms of sound quality.

If anything else, I'd say devote the majority of your budget to the headphone if you can manage. Perhaps half for the cans and half for the amp/dac. I like the idea of the LCD2 but I don't know what the price is at currently. People seem to love those headphones to the ends of the earth
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 4:25 PM Post #3 of 21
More important thing to know is what is the sound signature your looking for. Do you want something neutral or bassy or bright warm that kind of would help out a lot.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 4:31 PM Post #4 of 21
I'd go for the STAX SRS-3100 and Chord Mojo—used if you have to.

I owned that STAX (as well as three other STAX systems and countless other headphones) and regard it as one of the most accurate headphones I've heard. Personally, I like STAX far more than anything from Audeze or HIFIMAN.

The Mojo blows me away. I got my second one today. I've owned around a dozen DACs and it is in the top two, alongside the Chord 2Qute. You can get by with an entry-level DAC or DAC/amp, but I think the premium for a higher-end DAC is well worth it once you've found headphones/speakers you like.

I wouldn't bother with a DAP for a desktop system like this; just use a computer as your source and connect to a DAC or DAC/amp via USB or S/PDIF.

If you're looking for depth and immersion, headphones will be limited in that respect, since the soundstage is limited to a horizontal field next to your ears without much depth or height. (As opposed to loudspeakers in front of you, giving you more of an actual soundstage.) The SR-L300 doesn't have the most spacious soundstage, either—and this is coming from someone who doesn't care much about soundstage in headphones.
 
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Jul 13, 2017 at 4:45 PM Post #5 of 21
I'd go for the STAX SRS-3100 and Chord Mojo—used if you have to.

I owned that STAX (as well as three other STAX systems and countless other headphones) and regard it as one of the most accurate headphones I've heard. Personally, I like STAX far more than anything from Audeze or HIFIMAN.

The Mojo blows me away. I got my second one today. I've owned around a dozen DACs and it is in the top two, alongside the Chord 2Qute. You can get by with an entry-level DAC or DAC/amp, but I think the premium for a higher-end DAC is well worth it once you've found headphones/speakers you like.

I wouldn't bother with a DAP for a desktop system like this; just use a computer as your source.

If you're looking for depth and immersion, headphones will be limited in that respect, since the soundstage is limited to a horizontal field next to your ears without much depth or height. (As opposed to loudspeakers in front of you, giving you more of an actual soundstage.) The SR-L300 doesn't have the most spacious soundstage, either—and this is coming from someone who doesn't care much about soundstage in headphones.

I can respect that. I think I was looking to say I'm looking for a more "personal" sound rather than something particularly spacious. The X2's have a very v-shaped sound and I feel like vocals just aren't forward enough, so that's more the specifics. Thanks for the amp recommendation, I wasn't sure how important a DAP would be so I'll look into the mojo and just use my computer as the source. (Saves me a little down too) I also just really like how weird the STAX are, just in look. Something charming about it. If their soundstage is at least as good as my x2's or my sr80s I don't think I'll have too many gripes there.


@buke9 to address your question, I think I'm leaned more towards neutral with a little warmth, but I think I'd rather go more neutral, since I think I could add warmth later with a good tube amp if I really feel like I need it.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 4:50 PM Post #6 of 21
I can respect that. I think I was looking to say I'm looking for a more "personal" sound rather than something particularly spacious. The X2's have a very v-shaped sound and I feel like vocals just aren't forward enough, so that's more the specifics. Thanks for the amp recommendation, I wasn't sure how important a DAP would be so I'll look into the mojo and just use my computer as the source. (Saves me a little down too) I also just really like how weird the STAX are, just in look. Something charming about it. If their soundstage is at least as good as my x2's or my sr80s I don't think I'll have too many gripes there.

@buke9 to address your question, I think I'm leaned more towards neutral with a little warmth, but I think I'd rather go more neutral, since I think I could add warmth later with a good tube amp if I really feel like I need it.

Ah, if you're looking for a more personal/intimate sound, then the SR-L300 will be right up your alley. (Its soundstage is still well above average, and the instrument separation is superb.) And neutral with a little warmth describes its tonal balance perfectly.

Another benefit of the Mojo is that it can be used in so many different ways. DAC + headphone amp...DAC connected to an external amp...DAC + digital preamp for active speakers...and so on.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 4:53 PM Post #7 of 21
The strength of the LCD-2 lies in its sub-bass extension,so i wouldnt recommend them to someone like yourself who values vocals/mids....its not that the LCDs have poor mids(they dont)rather there are better options out there,especially since youre not looking for that rumble @ 15Hz......

The HE-500s have some of the best mids Ive ever heard,as do the nearly impossible to find AKG K240 sextetts(best guitars Ive yet to hear).Both the sextetts and 500s are discontinued,so you'd need to be cool with used.Both will require an above average amp......

The 560s tend to be a bit brighter than the 500s and not quite as musical IMO.

I agree with the Chord Mojo recommendation,its a bang for the buck champion...absolutely great piece of equipment....and at this point in your equipment journey a dedicated DAC is the best thing you can add to your chain.

FWIW I own the X1,only use it for gaming...mids are too recessed.
 
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Jul 13, 2017 at 5:19 PM Post #8 of 21
I can't speak much to the higher end models, I'm calling it a day and stopping with the HD650, but I've heard iffy things about the HE560. According to plenty of people, it's not typically viewed as worth the price tag because it's so close to the 400i in terms of sound quality.

If anything else, I'd say devote the majority of your budget to the headphone if you can manage. Perhaps half for the cans and half for the amp/dac. I like the idea of the LCD2 but I don't know what the price is at currently. People seem to love those headphones to the ends of the earth
I have the HE-560's, HE-400i, and HE-400s. I can confirm that the 400i gets you most of the way to the 560's for an incredible budget. The 560's do give you more detail retrieval, and you're a bit further from the stage, which is great for classical or big band music, but if vocals are your emphasis, the 400i and 400s are better ways to go. Vocals are recessed on the 560 by comparison.

I'd also throw in the Mr. Speaker Ether, if you can find them used. Vocals and details really come alive on the Ether, and the presentation is such that you feel like you're in the front row of a concert, or in the recording room with the band, at least to my ears. I haven't tried the SR-007, but so far, the only headphones I've heard that can best the Ether's for vocals is the Stax SR-009. After trying the LCD-X and HE-1000, HD800, TH900, I just couldn't get into them the say way. But that's all preference and taste, and I lucked out in being able to try them all out at a local store or audio show.

I agree with an above poster about STAX 100%, but I don't find them all that compelling until you start getting up to flagship models.

+1 to Chord Mojo, I auditioned one at LA Audio Show, and I get the hype now. With that said, you can still find a Schiit Stack cheaper, or you can get the Schiit Jotunheim. or an ifi depending on your preference.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 6:03 PM Post #9 of 21
I can confirm that the 400i gets you most of the way to the 560's for an incredible budget.

+1 to Chord Mojo, I auditioned one at LA Audio Show, and I get the hype now. With that said, you can still find a Schiit Stack cheaper, or you can get the Schiit Jotunheim. or an ifi depending on your preference.

I also thought the HE400i was "mostly" as good as the HE1000...but I think the Mojo is considerably better than the Modi Multibit, iFi micro iDSD, Modi 2, etc.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 6:22 PM Post #10 of 21
I also thought the HE400i was "mostly" as good as the HE1000...but I think the Mojo is considerably better than the Modi Multibit, iFi micro iDSD, Modi 2, etc.
As a stand alone DAC, possibly. I never tried it with another amp, so I couldn't say. But as for performance per dollar spent, I think the Mojo is at about the same ration as Schiit. Especially in this case.
1200 for cans+amp+dac
The Mojo would be 500-ish (at least amazon, which leaves 700 for headphones.
A Magni/Modi combo or ifi nano runs 200-ish, which leaves 1000 dollars for headphones.
I'd rather have the 1k (used ether) headphones with Schiit stack than 700$ headphones with Mojo. Personal call, though. I already have separate equipment for speakers, so the OP might be able to squeeze extra value out of the Mojo than I could envision it having for me.

As for leaning into planars/electrostats (which I missed earlier), actually I retract my previous statement. Music Alchemist is spot on with the Chord Mojo, and pair it with the 400i. Call it a day, and pocket the savings.

Edit to add: The exception is if you're willing to buy used. A used ether goes for about 1k, and paired with a warm amp, you'll accomplish great things.
 
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Jul 13, 2017 at 6:35 PM Post #11 of 21
As a stand alone DAC, possibly. I never tried it with another amp, so I couldn't say. But as for performance per dollar spent, I think the Mojo is at about the same ration as Schiit. Especially in this case.
1200 for cans+amp+dac
The Mojo would be 500-ish (at least amazon, which leaves 700 for headphones.
A Magni/Modi combo or ifi nano runs 200-ish, which leaves 1000 dollars for headphones.
I'd rather have the 1k (used ether) headphones with Schiit stack than 700$ headphones with Mojo. Personal call, though. I already have separate equipment for speakers, so the OP might be able to squeeze extra value out of the Mojo than I could envision it having for me.

As for leaning into planars/electrostats (which I missed earlier), actually I retract my previous statement. Music Alchemist is spot on with the Chord Mojo, and pair it with the 400i. Call it a day, and pocket the savings.

I meant it either way: as a DAC/amp or DAC with external amp. For example: The HD 800 driven from the Mojo sounded roughly the same as it did driven from the $4,300 Simaudio MOON Neo 430HAD DAC/amp. When I compared the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 to the headphone outputs of my laptop, I did not hear a difference with many headphones, whereas the Mojo is in another league.

In my opinion, electrostats are far superior technology, and to my ears, even entry-level STAX outperform any non-electrostat, regardless of price. The SR-L300, SRM-252S, and Mojo can be gotten used for well under the stated budget. (They can also be purchased new for around that budget if you import the STAX from Japan.)
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 6:44 PM Post #12 of 21
I meant it either way: as a DAC/amp or DAC with external amp. For example: The HD 800 driven from the Mojo sounded roughly the same as it did driven from the $4,300 Simaudio MOON Neo 430HAD DAC/amp. When I compared the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 to the headphone outputs of my laptop, I did not hear a difference with many headphones, whereas the Mojo is in another league.

In my opinion, electrostats are far superior technology, and to my ears, even entry-level STAX outperform any non-electrostat, regardless of price. The SR-L300, SRM-252S, and Mojo can be gotten used for well under the stated budget. (They can also be purchased new for around that budget if you import the STAX from Japan.)

Would you recommend -against- the Aune S6 as a DAC/AMP? only reason I ask is cause I was looking for a slightly larger unit to have on a kind of "media shelf" next to this really snazzy chaise, i like to do my listening away from my desk. Its roughly the same price as the mojo but its got some more inputs. this stuff wont leave my room so im not worried about portability, but if the sound quality difference would be -that- drastic I might think of a different solution.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 6:48 PM Post #13 of 21
Would you recommend -against- the Aune S6 as a DAC/AMP? only reason I ask is cause I was looking for a slightly larger unit to have on a kind of "media shelf" next to this really snazzy chaise, i like to do my listening away from my desk. Its roughly the same price as the mojo but its got some more inputs. this stuff wont leave my room so im not worried about portability, but if the sound quality difference would be -that- drastic I might think of a different solution.

I've never used it, so I can't comment. If it has features you want that the Mojo doesn't, that's something...but Chord DACs are really somethin' else in terms of sound.
 
Jul 13, 2017 at 7:08 PM Post #15 of 21
I meant it either way: as a DAC/amp or DAC with external amp. For example: The HD 800 driven from the Mojo sounded roughly the same as it did driven from the $4,300 Simaudio MOON Neo 430HAD DAC/amp. When I compared the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 to the headphone outputs of my laptop, I did not hear a difference with many headphones, whereas the Mojo is in another league.

In my opinion, electrostats are far superior technology, and to my ears, even entry-level STAX outperform any non-electrostat, regardless of price. The SR-L300, SRM-252S, and Mojo can be gotten used for well under the stated budget. (They can also be purchased new for around that budget if you import the STAX from Japan.)
I think that's debatable. My dad has some SR-407s which, like most electrostats, has great transient response, but despite the decent mids and wonderful highs, the bass was hollow, and outside of brass and some string&bow instruments, the music lacked impact.

I think the 400i's and Ethers are both more engaging. They're a bit behind in transient response, but they have a deeper extension into bass, and their presentation places more emphasis on vocals. The STAX are a bit depth neutral in regards to vocals, where as the Ether and 400i bring vocals front and center.

My other issue with the recommendation is spending money on redundancy. With you're recommendation, the OP would be buying two amps, a DAC, and earspeakers. If you can shell out 500 for an amp/dac, why not get a 500 DAC? Used bimby's go for about that, or less, and have more of the form factor that the OP is looking for.
 
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