[preproman]

Alpha Dogs / Vali anyone?

 

[MattTCG]

I'd say heck yeah. Just based on impressions and specs, should be no problem. The AD was pretty darn decent off my x3 player, so I'd say yes on the Vali. 

 

[paradoxper]

  Nope. Others have had issues. Go back and read the magni thread. Potentiometer issues are not that uncommon with the magni. 

I'd only take issue with it was only a few. Who knows how many Schiit has sold but it's not a rampant QC issue.
I thought the mini Schiit had excellent build quality for what it was.

 

[TMRaven]

I've been in that thread a couple of times. It wasn't big enough of an issue for me to notice.  I think the Magni/Modi build quality is pretty great myself.  Asides from the slightly skewed volume nob that's virtually on every Magni unit, I really love the build of these. 

 

[MattTCG]

Granted in fairness, the issue doesn't seem "rampant" but....understand that when it happens to YOU, the a QC issue can leave a bad taste in your mouth regardless of whether it's not a rampant issue. Add to that it was a situation where I actually referred a product to a friend making it even worse. 

 

[Taowolf51]

   
An impedance mismatch doesn't have to sound bad, in fact many may like it.  What might be more of an issue is the hiss you could get with sensitive cans.  I know I can't stand hiss during quiet spots or in between songs, even if I can't hear it during the music.
 
It is a pretty cheap bet, especially for the early praise from people who have heard it.  The interest is high enough already that the secondary market for these should be strong.
 
Oh and if you did your research and still want to experiment, you aren't an idiot unless you come back and say that these suck despite that early research.
 

 
Quote:

Yeah, I meant to mention the higher noise floor, but my mind went to output impedance first. Go figure. I liked my D7000 off the E9 over both the Lyr and NFB5, which the E9 was an impedance mismatch to the D7000 at 10ohm.

These sensitive headphones paired with the Vali's higher noise floor, will probably end up with a hissy combo.
 

 
That's more of a worry then. While I'm not horribly offended by a higher noise floor (my vintage amp has a pretty high noise floor), it is nice having a headphone amp with as low distortion and noise levels as the M-Stage. It may even be a worry as a psuedo preamp/tube buffer for speakers considering I'm using a 240wpc 4 ohm power amp to drive a pair of 90db/wm speakers (Thiels are known to like lots of power, and they're *very* good at letting you know if you have a noisy amp).
 
Hopefully there will be a Vali at the Philly meet I can try out. If not, they're inexpensive enough and will have enough of a demand in the second hand market that I'm not too worried about losing much cash if it doesn't mesh well with my gear.

 

[jwusoccer]

I literally had an asgard 2 in my cart today and checked head-fi on an impulse and saw this. I'm planning on getting customs, so unfortunately the lyr has to go. I guess I'll wait and see if the vali is any good with iems.

 

[oopeteroo]

subscribed :3

 

[TMRaven]

  I literally had an asgard 2 in my cart today and checked head-fi on an impulse and saw this. I'm planning on getting customs, so unfortunately the lyr has to go. I guess I'll wait and see if the vali is any good with iems.

 
You don't want to use it with IEMs.

 

[Gnomeplay]

Yep, they already verified that it won't be a good choice for them.

 

[tomb]

   
I can certainly understand why you'd want an entry of this particular configuration, what with the Bravos and Indeeds so far dominating the low budget hybrid segment. What I find rather curious though, is the choice of a non-replaceable tube (especially one with demonstrated microphonics). This configuration reminds me of a kit sold on DIY audio, for about half the cost. Not that I'm necessarily making a comparison, mind you.
 
So while I'm really glad that there are more little Schiit's on the market, I'm rather disappointed that I can't throw away my Bravo amp and replace it with a Vali. And while some may laugh at me for tube rolling a Bravo, if I find a tube with microphonics, I can throw it out and roll in another tube. So I am kind of baffled at that particular choice.
 
Now, quite frankly, if I ever see something like the Schiit version of a Bravo V2 or Indeed G3 coming out of Newhall, I would probably be the first guy to drive over and stand in line for one. Or two of them. I would like to go tube rolling with this vast collection of 12AU7's I've amassed, LOL. But even as good as I know your products to be, good sir, I am left to wonder if there really is any point to buying one of these amplifiers. I think I might sooner save my money for a Valhalla.

FOTM?
 
I am a little bit surprised at the admission of microphonics.  Seems to me that the same thing was designed, built, and marketed by Pete Millett (currently Apex amps) a few years ago - the Millett Hybrid Portable.  When I asked Pete why he didn't make it anymore or offer its design to the DIY community, he replied that it was the tubes - he literally rejected more than he used and it got to be a diminishing returns issue with continuing the production of the amp.  All of that was because he attempted to find sub-miniature tubes in every case that were not microphonic before he made an amp from them.  From what it sounded like to me, there is nothing more microphonic than sub-miniature tubes.
 
Now, as usual - Schiit's implementation at the price point of $119 is nothing short of unbelievable for such an amp.  However - JMHO - but the absolute gushing response from those such as purrin (supposedly a measurement freak) are a little bit beyond the typical FOTM - to say the least.  I haven't heard one and probably won't for quite some time - but anything based on admittedly microphonic tubes seems suspect in my experience with tubes.
 
Tubes - and I love them - have inherently more distortion and noise.  Sub-miniature tubes, while attractive because of their small size, are probably questionable as the basis of a desktop amp design with their microphonics.  Microphonics go way beyond an admonishment that says, "don't bang on your desktop" or "don't tap the tubes."  The noise in a micro environment continues for many minutes beyond the first disturbance - so much so, it affects the entire frequency spectrum.  Heck, the best tube amps even use teflon tube sockets to cut down on the potential for undetected microphonics.  It might be tolerable under the right conditions (low cost, entry-level designs).  However, to imply some of the things I've read about - the best amp below $1000, pairing it with the Abyss headphones ($5000?) - are frankly, ludicrous.
 
Again, JMHO - but the hype seems way out of proportion.
 
Just to be clear - the price is not out of proportion for the product as described, however, and I commend Schiit for another extremely competitive product in the marketplace.  It should be viewed in that context, however - not beyond that.

 

[purrin]

   The noise in a micro environment continues for many minutes beyond the first disturbance - so much so, it affects the entire frequency spectrum. 

 
Um, no.
 
Vali (two tone 500Hz and 1800Hz @ ~70db) into Paradox (T50RP mod) about 90-120 seconds after plugging in the jack.

 
Objective 2 solid-state amp (two tone 500Hz and 1800Hz @ ~70db) into Paradox (T50RP mod)

 
The major extraneous products at 1k, 1.3k, 2.2k, 3.6k, 6k are harmonic and intermodulation distortion, not tube microphonics. While the Vali does have a little bit higher distortion than the Objective 2 amp, there's nothing in the spectrum which would indicate the microphonic tubes affecting the entire spectrum. In fact, there's no evidence of the ringing of the microphonic tubes (which has its own specific set of frequencies.)
 
Now that's not to say that the microphonic 6088 tubes may in some odd way provide pleasurable harmonic complexity or coloration to the sound with non-steady state signals. For example, the $750/pair KR PX4 tube is one which is also very microphonic. And that tube has a reputation of sounding harmonically rich on the $4000 ECBA's so equipped.
 
If anything, I would say noise is more of a concern than tube microphonics, unless one liked to switch headphones or turn the amp on/off every two minutes.
 

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
However, to imply some of the things I've read about - the best amp below $1000, pairing it with the Abyss headphones ($5000?) - are frankly, ludicrous.

 
Let's put it this way:
 

• With the HE-400 and Paradox (but not necessarily the HE-500), I prefer the Vali over the $750 Mjolnir. I find the Vali more capable of transmitting the nuances (more resolving) of either of my DACs (PWD2 and M7) than the Mjolnir. Assuming the headphone in question is compatible with the Vali, I would prefer the Vali over most commercial non-DIY amps under $1k. I'd be happy to name a bunch, but I won't, unless people really want to know.
• If I had $5500 to spend on an amp and an headphone, I would get the Vali and Abyss. Why? because I feel this combination would sound better than an GSXmk2 + LCD3 ($5000) or EC 2A3 w/ tubes + HD800 ($5000) or Apex Peak / Volcano + LCD3 ($4100) or Woo WA5 w/ tubes + HD800 ($5500) or Liquid Glass w/ tubes + HE6 ($5500). In such a situation, the Vali could get me by until I saved up enough money to get a better headamp. This was always my approach with speakers before I started building my own. Get the best speakers I could afford which suited my tastes, find a high value amp which could get me by, save up for a better amp. So no, I do not share your opinion that this combination is ludicrous. In fact, I find it rather sensible.

 

[M-13]

For the price of the Abyss, the Vali should be included as an accessory. Your Abyss will include: Leather Bag + Stand + Vali

 

[shipsupt]

  FOTM?
 
However - JMHO - but the absolute gushing response from those such as purrin (supposedly a measurement freak) are a little bit beyond the typical FOTM - to say the least. 
 
 

 
Total measurement freak and mega-shill!  

 

 

[UmustBKidn]

  Um, no.
...
Now that's not to say that the microphonic 6088 tubes may in some odd way provide pleasurable harmonic complexity or coloration to the sound with non-steady state signals. For example, the $750/pair KR PX4 tube is one which is also very microphonic. And that tube has a reputation of sounding harmonically rich on the $4000 ECBA's so equipped.  
If anything, I would say noise is more of a concern than tube microphonics, unless one liked to switch headphones or turn the amp on/off every two minutes.
 
Let's put it this way:
 

• With the HE-400 and Paradox (but not necessarily the HE-500), I prefer the Vali over the $750 Mjolnir. I find the Vali more capable of transmitting the nuances (more resolving) of either of my DACs (PWD2 and M7) than the Mjolnir. Assuming the headphone in question is compatible with the Vali, I would prefer the Vali over most commercial non-DIY amps under $1k. I'd be happy to name a bunch, but I won't, unless people really want to know.
• If I had $5500 to spend on an amp and an headphone, I would get the Vali and Abyss. Why? because I feel this combination would sound better than an GSXmk2 + LCD3 ($5000) or EC 2A3 w/ tubes + HD800 ($5000) or Apex Peak / Volcano + LCD3 ($4100) or Woo WA5 w/ tubes + HD800 ($5500) or Liquid Glass w/ tubes + HE6 ($5500). In such a situation, the Vali could get me by until I saved up enough money to get a better headamp. This was always my approach with speakers before I started building my own. Get the best speakers I could afford which suited my tastes, find a high value amp which could get me by, save up for a better amp. So no, I do not share your opinion that this combination is ludicrous. In fact, I find it rather sensible.

 
Well now, this is a curious thing ... I can't quite wrap my brain around the comparisons between a $120 amp and a $750 amp, especially when the $120 amp wins. Either that Vali is one helluva little hybrid amp, or the Mjolnir is horribly disappointing for a balanced top of the line amp. Nevermind what sort of light this puts the yet-to-be-released R&Y statement offerings in.
 
Or maybe that pairing just Works Really Well?

Honestly folks, I'm just not quite buying it. It's an inexpensive hybrid amp, LOL.
 
Or maybe it really just validates what those of us living in Budget-Fi land already know: cheap hybrid tube amps sound pretty good, as long as you're not listening too closely.
 
I think I like that last theory the best.