New USB DAC for KICAS Caliente/HD650s?

Feb 2, 2009 at 6:20 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 11

jsedgwick

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Head-fi,

How much do I need to spend on a USC DAC in order to keep up with (not bottleneck) a rig that includes a KICAS Caliente amp and Senn HD650s further down the line? Can I do it for under $200, and if so, what are the good options? If not, should I instead get a USB AMP/DAC instead of caliente/dedicated DAC?

thanks,
jsedgwick
 
Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43 AM Post #3 of 11
I'm using an EMU 0404 USB which will soon be paired with a K.I.C.A.S. (Not the Caliente). I'm hoping it pairs well. I'll be using the Denon AH-D5000 with this setup. Should be 3-4 weeks before my K.I.C.A.S. comes in, at which point I'll be able to give a more in-depth look at how well the EMU pairs with the K.I.C.A.S.

The EMU 0404 USB retails for ~$200 at most retail locations, including Guitar Center, but you can find it for $170-ish easily enough online if you want to.

If you were looking at an Amp/DAC combo, the Audio-gd Compass is looking very promising so far from early impressions.

I've heard good things about the Valab DAC as well, but I can't say if it's better than the EMU 0404 or not.
 
Feb 2, 2009 at 9:21 AM Post #4 of 11
I'm using the 0404usb with caliente and hd600. Prior to the 0404usb was an X-fi xtremegamer. I find that the colder sounding 0404usb complements the already warm caliente+hd600 well. I suggest you look at colder sounding DACs
 
Feb 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM Post #6 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsedgwick /img/forum/go_quote.gif
SQ-wise, what's the difference between 0202usb and 0404usb?


Bump again on this question...

Also for the EMUs, they feature integrated headphones amps. Is this gonna be a standard feature with USB DACs or is there a good DAC without a builtin amp? I'd rather avoid paying the premium for the amp component since I'll have my caliente.
 
Feb 3, 2009 at 9:05 PM Post #7 of 11
It's not a standard feature or necessarily mandatory to have a headphone amp included with a DAC, just that the EMU 0404 is a multi-purpose product originally used and intended for portable recording that happens to have a good DAC/ADC (necessary for good recording, right?) and a mediocre headphone amp.

Honestly, you're fooling yourself if you think just because the product has a sub-product included (amp, recording capabilities, etc.) that some other part of the product is "lesser" than other products in the same price range. This would be like saying such-and-such motherboard is worse than such-and-such other motherboard because the one has an onboard NIC or sound card/codec. Usually this stuff isn't done by the main product company anyway and is contracted out, so the main product isn't hurt by having another product "tacked on", as some would see it. The EMU 0404 is a popular $200-ish DAC because the DAC is good and compares very favorably with other DACs in the same price range, and I don't feel it's worth less because of the other features that come with it.

Also, in case you were wondering, the "premium" on the other parts is reduced since EMU is a subsidiary of Creative, which manufactures audio products en masse, driving costs down, not up. A $200 product from Creative is (more than likely) going to be worth more than a $200 product from a smaller company if only because Creative has a larger budget to work with (in all likelihood) and a smaller margin percentage to meet than the smaller company, assuming the smaller company has to make larger margins per item sold, which it should (economically speaking) to stay in business. DIY products shouldn't be considered here since anyone who can DIY can make a better product at cost from the best parts available in a given price range than a company is going to charge you for a product given profit margins.

Just my two cents, really. Also, the 0404 is better than the 0202, especially considering the option for balanced output from the 0404. From that information and from what I've read on the 0202 vs. the 0404, the 0404 must have a slightly better DAC/ADC chip inside (or at least superior circuitry if nothing else), even though both chips have 24/192 capabilities.
 
Feb 3, 2009 at 9:31 PM Post #8 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taikero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's not a standard feature or necessarily mandatory to have a headphone amp included with a DAC, just that the EMU 0404 is a multi-purpose product originally used and intended for portable recording that happens to have a good DAC/ADC (necessary for good recording, right?) and a mediocre headphone amp.

Honestly, you're fooling yourself if you think just because the product has a sub-product included (amp, recording capabilities, etc.) that some other part of the product is "lesser" than other products in the same price range. This would be like saying such-and-such motherboard is worse than such-and-such other motherboard because the one has an onboard NIC or sound card/codec. Usually this stuff isn't done by the main product company anyway and is contracted out, so the main product isn't hurt by having another product "tacked on", as some would see it. The EMU 0404 is a popular $200-ish DAC because the DAC is good and compares very favorably with other DACs in the same price range, and I don't feel it's worth less because of the other features that come with it.

Also, in case you were wondering, the "premium" on the other parts is reduced since EMU is a subsidiary of Creative, which manufactures audio products en masse, driving costs down, not up. A $200 product from Creative is (more than likely) going to be worth more than a $200 product from a smaller company if only because Creative has a larger budget to work with (in all likelihood) and a smaller margin percentage to meet than the smaller company, assuming the smaller company has to make larger margins per item sold, which it should (economically speaking) to stay in business. DIY products shouldn't be considered here since anyone who can DIY can make a better product at cost from the best parts available in a given price range than a company is going to charge you for a product given profit margins.

Just my two cents, really. Also, the 0404 is better than the 0202, especially considering the option for balanced output from the 0404. From that information and from what I've read on the 0202 vs. the 0404, the 0404 must have a slightly better DAC/ADC chip inside (or at least superior circuitry if nothing else), even though both chips have 24/192 capabilities.



Great post, thanks for the info.
 
Feb 5, 2009 at 4:23 AM Post #10 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsedgwick /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hmm, I see a Keces DA-151 Mk2 for $270 shipped on ebay. I really can't decide whether to snag that deal now, or just get the EMU 0404. The upside to the 0404 is that A. it's cheaper (duh) and B. it has at least some sort of headphone amp that I can use while I wait for my Caliente.


Hello, I have to note that seller who sells DA-151 Mk2 for $220+shipping. We have NOT released DA-151 Mk2 via any other means other than through my channel, so if you get it from him, it will either be the original DA-151 instead of mk2, or I'm not sure what you would get (for sure it won't be DA-151 Mk2). I have lodged complaints with ebay, and they seems to be quite slow at processing things like these.
 
Feb 5, 2009 at 4:27 AM Post #11 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hello, I have to note that seller who sells DA-151 Mk2 for $220+shipping. We have NOT released DA-151 Mk2 via any other means other than through my channel, so if you get it from him, it will either be the original DA-151 instead of mk2, or I'm not sure what you would get (for sure it won't be DA-151 Mk2). I have lodged complaints with ebay, and they seems to be quite slow at processing things like these.


Thanks for the info Maniac. Fortunately I didn't bite on the offer...
 

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