New to all the headphone amplifiers. What a main difference in a tube headphone amp?

May 19, 2017 at 6:35 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 12

crash525

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Hello all. I love great sounding music and I am starting to dabble in higher end equipment upwards of $300.00. I know its not top notch stuff. The equipment I have right now is a fiio x1 music player with a small inline amp along with a few lossless music files, and a pair of ath-m50 headphones, numerous different earphones, I also have a creative labs sound card for my computer, plus what ever cell phone I have. Im looking to purchase a tube headphone amp. I have not heard one before and I was wondering if there is a different between the tube amps and digital amps? People say the sound is different. Isnt the sound supposed to be replicated to the original the best it can? So do tube amps add a different sound or change it? Also would I need or should I get a DAC with the tube amp? Id like to buy american made or good quality stuff so does anyone have any recommendations?
 
May 19, 2017 at 9:06 PM Post #2 of 12
Well before I dropped $300 on a amp I would look for better headphones first. I'm not for sure about the 50's but the 50x's have a very bloated bass for me. If your willing to drop that much on a amp then headphones would be the better choice IMO. Plus a tube amp for them would be a waste but that is just my opinion.
 
May 19, 2017 at 9:43 PM Post #3 of 12
Well before I dropped $300 on a amp I would look for better headphones first. I'm not for sure about the 50's but the 50x's have a very bloated bass for me. If your willing to drop that much on a amp then headphones would be the better choice IMO. Plus a tube amp for them would be a waste but that is just my opinion.

+1. That money is best spent on updated headphones. An amp can come later, tube or SS or hybrid--whatever you choose.
 
May 19, 2017 at 11:00 PM Post #4 of 12
Tube amps typically have a warmer sound signature than a solid state amp.They can make bright headphones sound wonderful,and warm headphones sound pretty bad.

Once youre into tube amps their sound can be sculpted quite a bit by changing specific tubes for others,also known as 'tube rolling'....I do a bit of this on my speaker amp,and the change is startling.

I havent heard your headphones,but if Buke's description of 'bloated bass' is accurate,the last thing you'd want is a tube amp.
 
May 19, 2017 at 11:18 PM Post #5 of 12
I agree with @buke9 , the M50X have a sort of bloated bass and to be quite honest, I don't particularly like them even though they are really popular. To me they sounded dull with a lot of bloated bass. Like everyone else has mentioned above, you're better off getting a new pair of headphone first rather than dropping $300 on a tube amp.
 
May 20, 2017 at 2:40 AM Post #6 of 12
Hello all. I love great sounding music and I am starting to dabble in higher end equipment upwards of $300.00. I know its not top notch stuff. The equipment I have right now is a fiio x1 music player with a small inline amp along with a few lossless music files, and a pair of ath-m50 headphones, numerous different earphones, I also have a creative labs sound card for my computer, plus what ever cell phone I have. Im looking to purchase a tube headphone amp. I have not heard one before and I was wondering if there is a different between the tube amps and digital amps? People say the sound is different. Isnt the sound supposed to be replicated to the original the best it can? So do tube amps add a different sound or change it? Also would I need or should I get a DAC with the tube amp? Id like to buy american made or good quality stuff so does anyone have any recommendations?
For improving audio quality, your better off upgrading from the ATH-M50 headphones.
 
May 20, 2017 at 11:02 PM Post #7 of 12
Im looking to purchase a tube headphone amp. I have not heard one before and I was wondering if there is a different between the tube amps and digital amps?

First off, there isn't such a thing as a "digital amp." Amplifier circuits amplify an analogue signal, whether it was purely analogue like from a TT or converted from digital by a DAC. The closest thing to a digital amp is called a Power DAC, like the Wadia and Peachtree products, which instead of just cramming a regular DAC and amp circuit into the same box, basically has the DAC chip's output fed directly into the amp output stage to minimize the analogue circuit path and coloration.

Second, there isn't a single kind of tube amp. Most common when it comes to headphone amps are OTL, or Output Transformerless designs. These have a high output impedance and spit out more power at high impedance, and are typically used for high impedance cans (and sometimes on high efficiency, low impedance headphones that won't be adversely affected, if at least not by making them sound like tin cans; ie, Grados tend to sound thicker with some OTL amps). These were primarily designed to skirt around the costs of producing transformer coupled designs, which tend to be larger, heavier, cost more to produce (ie some that can compete with good solid state designs are much larger and have three transformers, plus a heck of a lot of tubes), and in turn, also cost more to pack, ship, and store.

Then there are hybrid amps with a tube gain stage mated to a solid state output stage.


People say the sound is different. Isnt the sound supposed to be replicated to the original the best it can? So do tube amps add a different sound or change it?

Some tube amps behave more like good solid state headphone amps, ie, there are bad amps regardless of whether they are solid state or tube.

That said, OTL amps have a very high output impedance and aren't really designed for low impedance loads, so if you're using something like a K701, you need a transformer coupled amp, or just get a hybrid or solid state. Transformer-coupled amps tend to be expensive, so take that into account.

Some tube amps are bad from a technical standpoint since they're designed to introduce a lot of harmonic distortion instead of just simply amplifying the sound. My Little Dot MkII made Norah Jones sound like she needs to snort spicy chicken soup to clear her sinuses when the HD600 is on anything more worn than brand new earpads. It had the same warming effect on my SR225.

Personally, just get a hybrid with a low noise preamp tube, and then get a low noise, not too low gain, warm tube if it doesn't come with one. That will introduce just enough of the warming harmonic distortion to make Loudness War recordings slightly less glaring.

Also would I need or should I get a DAC with the tube amp? Id like to buy american made or good quality stuff so does anyone have any recommendations?

DACs : JDS Labs EL or OL DAC, Schiit Modi

Given you have the Fiio X1 Id much rather just get the tube/hybrid amp. Try the Vali2 if you have low impedance headphones, or the Darkvoice DV336se if you have any low impedance, lower sensitivity headphones.
 
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Jun 2, 2017 at 7:10 PM Post #8 of 12
Thanks for all the reply's everyone. I had been busy and forgot about this post. Im not sure if this forum does email notifications for post. I appreciate the feed back. Personally I like the way my m50's sound. With my pc's sound card they sound pretty good but with my phone and fiio they sound ok. I have a pair of klipsh ear buds I think they are the s4's and they sound good. And a pair of nuforce ne800m but I do not really prefer the sound from them. The 300 dollar was a max limit. I was open to suggestions on anything. Im not necessarily interesting in making my headphones or music sound better from a tube amp, although it would be nice. I am more curious on how a tube amp makes/changes the sound. I am still new to all this and research it when I can. I never listened to anything with a tube amp before but I read about how it changes the sound. Im guessing that bloated means it favors mids to lows with/or less clarity? Again I am still on the learning curve with all this.

So a tube amp will change the sound of the music I am listening to, but as in how? Im used to the terms low, mid, highs, the impact, and softness of sounds. Does it make a different sound stage, soften the clarity? I just want to hear how tube amps sound but dont want to purchase cheap junk or something outrageously expensive. Ill take peoples advice on my headphones paired with a tube amp. Would any of the ear buds I have work better with a tube amp? If not what would anyone recommend for a headphone and amp set up thats within that 300$ range?
 
Jun 2, 2017 at 7:49 PM Post #9 of 12
Not for sure on the new site as I'm on my phone right now but it did list how to be notified and email is one of them. As for how a tube amp will change the sound that depends on the amp. I had a Valhalla 2 a year or so ago and with the stock tubes it was more Solid State sounding than my Cavalli Liquid Carbon. There are several types of tube amps also. There is a hybrid which as a tube input stage and a solid state output stage that will most likely run most anything . Then there is a OTL which means output transformer less which mostly wants a higher impedance headphones though some can also accommodate lower impedance also. Then there is a transformer coupled tube amp that can run a variety of headphones but they tend to be more expensive as the transformers are not cheap. The capacitor coupled I have no idea about and I'm sure there are some others but that is the most common. The sound can be much different from all of those.
 
Jun 2, 2017 at 9:41 PM Post #10 of 12
hmm. There is so much to learn about this topic itself. I was doing some reading and it probably would not benefit me to get a amp that changes the sound such as a tube amp if its coming from a source such as headphone out. I would need a source where theres a line out from what I have been reading. Im not sure if my pc sound card has a line out or not. I figure the tube amp will change the sound but the device I am listening on will also change it in a way whether or not the eq is adjusted. I could be wrong but it could be like listening to two sound changing profiles on top of each other...? I noticed some of the links that are posted on the top of the forums are not working such as describing a sound. Is that another place to find those?
 
Jun 2, 2017 at 11:10 PM Post #12 of 12
hmm. There is so much to learn about this topic itself. I was doing some reading and it probably would not benefit me to get a amp that changes the sound such as a tube amp if its coming from a source such as headphone out. I would need a source where theres a line out from what I have been reading. Im not sure if my pc sound card has a line out or not. I figure the tube amp will change the sound but the device I am listening on will also change it in a way whether or not the eq is adjusted. I could be wrong but it could be like listening to two sound changing profiles on top of each other...? I noticed some of the links that are posted on the top of the forums are not working such as describing a sound. Is that another place to find those?

If your source is your computer,and its motherboard sound,then the most logical thing to do is to get a DAC,which will impact the quality of the music the most.
Once you have a DAC then you can go about finding an amp based upon your preferences and headphones.

Listening to music straight out of your computer is pretty horrid,and once you get a DAC you will realize just how bad it was.

Although its above your budget I'd highly recommend a Chord Mojo,as its an excellent DAC with a warm tilt,and an excellent amp as well.
If youre on a strict budget I'd recommend a Schiit stack.
 

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