[Leetransform25]

Sony is planning next year 2020 to have their own streaming service it is called Mora

Isn't Mora already a thing? Although I believe Mora as we have it right now is only a music store

 

[equalspeace]

Regarding Neutron that’s the case on certain DAPs like those from Ibasso and Fiio, Hiby.. but that’s it. No telling if Sony has any interest in joining that short list with the neutron developer. This was the case with the ZX2, which I have mentioned, and is the case to this day. I have no exp with that other third party app you mentioned, thus i will not speak about it

but there are some android music players like Neutron and USB Aduio player Pro and they do not down sample to 44k

 

[Ojisan]

Isn't Mora already a thing? Although I believe Mora as we have it right now is only a music store

Mora is an online music store now but they have been delaying the launch of streaming service "mora qualitas" (jp press: https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201905/29/47499.html ). Their usual attempt of trying to create their own eco-system.

I'm curiously watching this thread to see if zx500 could be better than dx220. If it's better, it will be a keeper

 

[dhc0329]

Is there a link to buy this from US?

 

[abitdeef]

Is there a link to buy this from US?

Not unless you have a time machine.

 

[nanaholic]

The LG g7 legit measures as well as a lot of desktop dacs, so I feel like your interference arguments is kinda invalid, and also sounds a bit made up lol. Do you have anything I can read to back it up?

The electro-magnetic emission of cellular radio of mobile phones is not constant but fluctuates depending on how far it is to a cell tower, the strength of the signal it is connecting to with the cell tower, as well as what it is doing at the time of measurement - so unless the measurements of the LG G7 is done while factoring or simulating those conditions (which I doubt - your average FR and THD measurement tools for audio and the sites doing them simply doesn't take these conditions into factor), you will not get an accurate reading of the effects of the EMI on its output. If you've ever experience the static/clicking noise from a speaker when a mobile phone is placed near it just as it was about to ring, you've just experienced a sudden increase in EMI due to the phone suddenly boosting its power output when making a handshake connection with the cell tower in preparation of connecting the voice call, and that EMI being picked up by the speaker which is not properly shielded from the effects.

In a best case scenario you would hope the maker has factored in the maximum power output of the radio in the phone to compensate for its effects - but it's still an added complexity to the design and EMI shielding that would add cost and bulk to the device which could be better spent elsewhere. Of course if you want you can put the phone into airplane mode which switches all the radios off, but if that's the use case, why put the radio into the device in the first place?

 

[superuser1]

The LG g7 legit measures as well as a lot of desktop dacs, so I feel like your interference arguments is kinda invalid, and also sounds a bit made up lol. Do you have anything I can read to back it up?

I do after with everything else though. Having a dap phone wouldn't work for too long. We'll see not long some of these Android Daps last before bogging down. Just got a hiby r5 so fingers crossed.

You are addressing the @nanaholic .. thou shalt be respectful of the Sensei

 

[Bloodborne]

Is this leaps and bounds judging by the specs against the Fiio M11?

 

[Malevolint]

The electro-magnetic emission of cellular radio of mobile phones is not constant but fluctuates depending on how far it is to a cell tower, the strength of the signal it is connecting to with the cell tower, as well as what it is doing at the time of measurement - so unless the measurements of the LG G7 is done while factoring or simulating those conditions (which I doubt - your average FR and THD measurement tools for audio and the sites doing them simply doesn't take these conditions into factor), you will not get an accurate reading of the effects of the EMI on its output. If you've ever experience the static/clicking noise from a speaker when a mobile phone is placed near it just as it was about to ring, you've just experienced a sudden increase in EMI due to the phone suddenly boosting its power output when making a handshake connection with the cell tower in preparation of connecting the voice call, and that EMI being picked up by the speaker which is not properly shielded from the effects.

In a best case scenario you would hope the maker has factored in the maximum power output of the radio in the phone to compensate for its effects - but it's still an added complexity to the design and EMI shielding that would add cost and bulk to the device which could be better spent elsewhere. Of course if you want you can put the phone into airplane mode which switches all the radios off, but if that's the use case, why put the radio into the device in the first place?

Ok I hear you, and it makes sense, but wouldn't this mean that having your phone anywhere near your dap cause audible interference as well? I never hear it. I've heard it with a desktop amp before, but never with a phone or dap. I feel like this means that there is proper shielding.

Can you give me something to read on the subject besides your own thoughts? You sound very intelligent, but also like you're making an issue out of a non-issue.

We have had audiophile grade phones and interference has never been a documented issue with any of them.

 

[graphidz]

If the Android downsampling can be bypassed by just simply using other music apps, then I don't think it's an issue to not get the zx500 and a100.

If the current UI on their players are any indication, it's by miles far from the robustness of other music players. The only reason to stay with the Sony music app is the DSP but personally I never liked it so not going to be missed. I'm sure quite a few feels the same too

 

[nanaholic]

Ok I hear you, and it makes sense, but wouldn't this mean that having your phone anywhere near your dap cause audible interference as well? I never hear it. I've heard it with a desktop amp before, but never with a phone or dap. I feel like this means that there is proper shielding.

Can you give me something to read on the subject besides your own thoughts? You sound very intelligent, but also like you're making an issue out of a non-issue.

We have had audiophile grade phones and interference has never been a documented issue with any of them.

For a general scientific overview of the subject you can read this:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-cell-phone-screeching/
https://itstillworks.com/eliminate-electromagnetic-interference-12281784.html
https://www.rfvenue.com/blog/2015/0...-phones-from-interfering-with-audio-equipment

Most current DAPs are pretty well shield from external EMI due to the big and thick external chassis casing (compared to mobile phones), this is of course by design in order to protect the components on the inside from outside EMI - ergo, the smartphone itself is also somewhat shielding its EMI from its surrounding devices with the casing, else it will be causing all sorts of issues when you simply carrying it around because a smartphone is constantly emitting radio waves, and why devices with radios has to go through a certification process to make sure they don't emit too much EMI. This is why you don't hear the interference even when you place a phone near DAP, as both devices are separated and shielded from each other by their exterior chassis casing and their EMI is properly regulated by governing bodies to make sure drastic levels of interference between separate devices doesn't occur. However it becomes a different problem when you place all the components of a phone and a DAP inside the same chassis - the balance between overall size of the device, the thickness of the shielding required inside when the components are placed close together becomes more complex, and thus harder to reach the right balance between effectiveness, cost, size and weight.

The EMI having an effect on the headphone output of the device is not well documented becaues it's not something the user can easily fix themselves as well as due to the highly sealed nature of modern smartphones, and that smartphone audio quality had always been pretty low on the list of what general consumers care about. If a smartphone suffers from a poorly shielded headphone jack, people will just write it off as they can't do much about it, and whatever information that is documented by enthusiasts are usually scattered all around. However some of the older Samsung Galaxy S phones are known to be prone to their own EMI. You can find support incidents on their user form like these:
https://us.community.samsung.com/t5...ung-galaxy-s7-edge-sound-distortion/td-p/1852

Also one of the initial arguments for going with USB-C and eliminating the 3.5mm jack on phones was to separate the audio components away from the radio components inside to reduce noise from interference:
https://www.androidauthority.com/3-5mm-audio-usb-type-c-701507/

The issue is not non-existant, it's just not a particularly high priority one for the general smartphones users and owners, and now even lower on the list as smartphones has gone USB-C and more people are using wireless earbuds. But if any maker is to go back to the "one device to rule them all" and make a high end smartphone/DAP combo with the aim to use traditional analog headphone jacks, then this is definitely a problem they will have to address during the design process.

 

[BurritoJustice]

If the Android downsampling can be bypassed by just simply using other music apps, then I don't think it's an issue to not get the zx500 and a100.

If the current UI on their players are any indication, it's by miles far from the robustness of other music players. The only reason to stay with the Sony music app is the DSP but personally I never liked it so not going to be missed. I'm sure quite a few feels the same too

The Sony default player is confirmed to circumvent SRC, so no issue with local files.

The issue is with streaming apps, which typically do not have any alternate players. In particular, while out and about, I use Spotify extensively as a music discovery tool. If the quote is correct this will be resampled to 48kHz from 44.1kHz. Luckily this DAP supports the Play Store so UAPP can be used to bypass SRC for Tidal (I believe at around $12), but that is just one service and competing DAPs bypass the SRC universally allowing you to use the player you prefer without limitation.

It seems bizarre to me that Sony pre-installs Tidal (from the show players), includes MQA-unfold for Tidal Masters, and then by their own statement downsample to 48/16. I won't get into the semantics of resampling and the science/preference of that, but it is inarguably an area where Sony disappoints for their price segment and product advertising.

 

[graphidz]

The Sony default player is confirmed to circumvent SRC, so no issue with local files.

The issue is with streaming apps, which typically do not have any alternate players. In particular, while out and about, I use Spotify extensively as a music discovery tool. If the quote is correct this will be resampled to 48kHz from 44.1kHz. Luckily this DAP supports the Play Store so UAPP can be used to bypass SRC for Tidal (I believe at around $12), but that is just one service and competing DAPs bypass the SRC universally allowing you to use the player you prefer without limitation.

It seems bizarre to me that Sony pre-installs Tidal (from the show players), includes MQA-unfold for Tidal Masters, and then by their own statement downsample to 48/16. I won't get into the semantics of resampling and the science/preference of that, but it is inarguably an area where Sony disappoints for their price segment and product advertising.

Most of not all the arguments didn't mention about streaming so only now I get the concern. Spotify shouldn't be a problem since it isn't even considered hi-res here. The thing about UAPP is new to me. Will check it up.

Let's just hope Sony has a change of mind and work out the issue before release or maybe release an update soon after release. Big companies never really make good decisions, especially to cater a niche market

 

[Evoke]

Wrong thread *

 

[weexisttocease]

Most of not all the arguments didn't mention about streaming so only now I get the concern. Spotify shouldn't be a problem since it isn't even considered hi-res here. The thing about UAPP is new to me. Will check it up.

Let's just hope Sony has a change of mind and work out the issue before release or maybe release an update soon after release. Big companies never really make good decisions, especially to cater a niche market

UAPP can be used to bypass SRC for Tidal, Qobuz and Google Music. It supports MQA in-app. Also it comes with graphic EQ and have a option of in-app parametric EQ and Morphit from Toneboosters. As with the EQ, it only works when bitPerfect audio is off.