New Schiit! Ragnarok and Yggdrasil
May 12, 2015 at 7:52 PM Post #7,351 of 9,472

Josh83

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the AD5791 specs in its datasheet are much more convincing re 20-bit performance than the PCM1704 - the 1704 even given the slant towards dynamic spec just is a bit shy on useful performance numbers at the 20 bit level

the AD5791 however does give an awful dynamic distortion number - Mike's secret sauce on that hasn't been revealed so far


it would be interesting to see the Yggy's 24 bit sine fade linearity/THD plot as the digital level drops through -120 dB

the AP analyzers do this with internal gain switching - can see this measurement in Stereophile measurements of hi end audio DAC

a home soundcard and AV 100-1000x amp with a couple of op amps would do the job even if averaging were needed to pull the signal from the noise (yes I know how to make low enough distortion clipping/limiting amps to protect the soundcard input)


maybe we will eventually get higher res measurements from a AP analyzer or even a teardown/internal tour with 'scope pics one day



"First true 20-bit" is just marketing speak (Schiit or Analog Devices) for the AD5791 DAC chip being super linear all the way down to the 20th bit.  R2R DAC chips historically have not been all that linear at the bottom and the lowest ladder rung changes are in the thermal noise of the system at the number of bits increase.  That is why the PCM1704UK is so expensive as lasers are used to trim ladder down to incredible small levels but any minute changes in voltage, temperature, or other factors in the real world applications can throw off linearity at this minute level.  Schiit's position is there is not much going on down there that can be retrieved and useful so why not use a really good 20-bit DAC chip with guaranteed performance.   Maybe someone else can explain better. 

My first Sony CD player (1983) had a single 14-bit DAC but I could hear a lot of low level information, reverb tails, etc.  It was much better than the later 1-bit DAC chips that followed in the late 80s.  My hearing is probably 7-bits now anyway. :wink_face:  


So, this may be a dumb follow-up, but how does the chip deal with 24-bit audio, if it doesn't throw out any of the original bits?
 
May 12, 2015 at 7:53 PM Post #7,352 of 9,472

DutchGFX

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I tried burning in my carpet and my neighbors called the fire department. carpet performance strongly decreased after burn-in :frowning2: actually a bit wet and soggy right now. going to wait for it to warm back up before testing again.


Just like my RCA cables, I felt my carpet would be inadequate without an upgrade. Instead of silver plating my carpet, which would result in it becoming less of a carpet and more like a tiled floor, I decided to electrostatically charge my carpet by creating tons of static. I can now finally feel the music! Every time I step on the carpet I feel a nice jolt of music go through my body. I never would have been exposed to this experience without the upgrade!
 
May 12, 2015 at 7:59 PM Post #7,353 of 9,472

metaldood

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^ I'm surprised no-one started a separate Yggdrasil impressions thread. I would've...but I figured the honor should go to an owner.

But don't let me stop you
tongue.gif

There are capable head-fi'ers than me who can start separate impressions thread :wink: . Right now I am interested in learning more about the Ragnarok but past X number of posts are about Yggdrasil :frowning2: so I gave up on reading about it.
 
May 12, 2015 at 8:07 PM Post #7,354 of 9,472

Argo Duck

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^ OIC. If you go back a month or so (before Yggy's release) there's a steady stream of Ragnarok stuff. A lot of questions and combinations answered. If there's something specific you could try "Search this thread" or even google.
 
May 12, 2015 at 8:24 PM Post #7,356 of 9,472

negura

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^ I'm surprised no-one started a separate Yggdrasil impressions thread. I would've...but I figured the honor should go to an owner.

But don't let me stop you
tongue.gif

 
The Ragnarok I had at home didn't even remotely play in the same league with the DAC. As such I didn't think it competes for space in this thread, but it can surely have a separate space imo.
 
I think of the Ragnarok as a "value" product in good Schiit style, but the DAC is quite something else. 
 
May 12, 2015 at 8:38 PM Post #7,358 of 9,472

wahsmoh

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Has anyone else heard the Yggy paired with the Woo WA5? I really enjoyed that setup.. that would be end game for me. 
 
May 12, 2015 at 9:21 PM Post #7,359 of 9,472

dglow

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So, this may be a dumb follow-up, but how does the chip deal with 24-bit audio, if it doesn't throw out any of the original bits?


I can't answer for Schiit but it probably truncates to 20-bits.  There may be dithering involved with some of those missing bits.


I thought the '20-bit' figure was about effective, measurable resolution, not the data format. For all we know the chip may accept 24- or even 32-bit samples.
 
May 12, 2015 at 10:10 PM Post #7,360 of 9,472

atomicbob

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I don't disagree at all and it's certainly better and beyond. This is just my practical bias... I want to listen to my speakers playing as close as I can get to background live music in my living room or over in my dining room. It's not going to be perfect, but it certainly beats no sound or bad sound. =)
 
Yes, ideally I would have a spare acoustic treated room with another system. But that's not happening anytime soon.

But you CAN help your spousal unit shop for furniture. I took a clicker with me on our outings to give a pseudo impulse response as we "auditioned" furniture. When we agreed, the look and comfort for her, the absorption for which I was listening, we acquired it. The room looks like any other family room, but the sound qualities are greatly improved. It also helps to have a measurement system to assist with furniture arrangement. Inexpensive that works well is the Omnimic at Part Express.
 
May 13, 2015 at 12:42 AM Post #7,361 of 9,472

reddog

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I have had my Yggdrasil on, warming up for over 176 hours and I am in awe. I have never heard Frank Zappa's " One Size Fits All" sound so real, so transparent, so natural. I had the good fortune to hear Zappa play twice, and listening to this CD makes me feel I am hearing him live. The sound stage is perfectly holographic, I can perceive the instruments and where they placed. The bass, midds and treble are so textured, and detailed, but the sound signature does not become analytical or grainy. The sound never looses its musical, lush like smoothness. The musicality of the sound is intoxicating. I feel like Odysseus being tempted by the harpies, to listen to the music, to the moment of magical synergy, till I become faint from exhaustion. I am extremely happy with my Yggy/ Rag combination. The only way my yggy will ever be turned off, is during a power outage.
P.s. I am getting goosebumps from the music.:)
 
May 13, 2015 at 12:46 AM Post #7,363 of 9,472
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May 13, 2015 at 12:52 AM Post #7,364 of 9,472

EraserXIV

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People who say the Yggy sounds the same as their old DAC is akin to saying a Lamborghini is the same as an BMW M3 because they are both fast cars that get you from point A to point B. If all you want from your DAC is to get you from point A to point B. Don't bother purchasing a Lamborghini.
 
May 13, 2015 at 1:04 AM Post #7,365 of 9,472

Exacoustatowner

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Just like my RCA cables, I felt my carpet would be inadequate without an upgrade. Instead of silver plating my carpet, which would result in it becoming less of a carpet and more like a tiled floor, I decided to electrostatically charge my carpet by creating tons of static. I can now finally feel the music! Every time I step on the carpet I feel a nice jolt of music go through my body. I never would have been exposed to this experience without the upgrade!

That's great! I think you really should put your charged electrostatic carpet on risers and keep them away from speaker cables-which can affect the carpet's sound and make the music play backwards!
 

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