[ruthieandjohn]

That's very helpful, thanks. Pardon my ignorance, but how long do tubes in an amp like the Lyr 2 last, i.e. how many hours of play should I expect to get out of them? Also, how will I know when it's time to change the tube(s)?

Schitt says 5.000 hours. My guess would be... change tubes when the two channels sound different, and change both.

 

[DavidA]

   
That's very helpful, thanks. Pardon my ignorance, but how long do tubes in an amp like the Lyr 2 last, i.e. how many hours of play should I expect to get out of them? Also, how will I know when it's time to change the tube(s)?

How long a tube last depends on 1) how well it was constructed, 2) the tube family (some last longer than others), 3) condition of tube when you first start using them, and 4) the conditions that you use them.  This is what I've found reading a little about tubes on these threads so I don't know if its correct or not.
 
One thing I tend to agree with is power cycles are not good, the heating and cooling process should be minimized since this is stressful on the tube.  Also, some say tubes preform at their best when they have reached a stable operating temperature.  I have 2 pairs of tubes that have about 5000+ hours on them over a 2-1/2 year period and they still work but lately I just rotate my tubes in various amps about once a month.  I have 28 pairs for my Lyr2, 34 driver tubes for my BH Crack and Ember and 20 power tubes for my BH Crack.
 
Hope this helps, bottom line I would say 2500-5000 hours would be the minimum I think you should expect from most tubes.

 

[Geekinside]

Hi there,
 
Just ordered a Lyr 2 + Bimby stack, can't wait to have them but already impatient to roll tubes

 

[Dr Metal MD]

Schitt says 5.000 hours. My guess would be... change tubes when the two channels sound different, and change both.

 
That helps. Thanks!
 
 

  How long a tube last depends on 1) how well it was constructed, 2) the tube family (some last longer than others), 3) condition of tube when you first start using them, and 4) the conditions that you use them.  This is what I've found reading a little about tubes on these threads so I don't know if its correct or not.
 
One thing I tend to agree with is power cycles are not good, the heating and cooling process should be minimized since this is stressful on the tube.  Also, some say tubes preform at their best when they have reached a stable operating temperature.  I have 2 pairs of tubes that have about 5000+ hours on them over a 2-1/2 year period and they still work but lately I just rotate my tubes in various amps about once a month.  I have 28 pairs for my Lyr2, 34 driver tubes for my BH Crack and Ember and 20 power tubes for my BH Crack.
 
Hope this helps, bottom line I would say 2500-5000 hours would be the minimum I think you should expect from most tubes.

 
That helps a lot. Thanks for your in-depth explanation. So, if I know I'm going to be listening through the amp for the afternoon, it's best not to shut it on and off?
 
 

  Hi there,
 
Just ordered a Lyr 2 + Bimby stack, can't wait to have them but already impatient to roll tubes

 
Enjoy! Did you buy it new? I keep hoping a cheaper used one will pop up, but they seem to be getting harder and harder to come by. If you don't want yours, let me know! jk

 

[Geekinside]

  Enjoy! Did you buy it new? I keep hoping a cheaper used one will pop up, but they seem to be getting harder and harder to come by. If you don't want yours, let me know! jk

 
Yes, new from Schiit EU (I am swiss). I hope I'll be satisfied and I would'nt have to resell it to you

 

[DavidA]

@Dr Metal MD, when I was still working full time I used to come home on Friday and turn on the amps and leave them on until I when to sleep on Sunday.  These days they may stay on for a few days at a time but I use a USB fan to keep the Lyr2 and BH Crack cool.
 
@Geekinside, for both of you if you will be rolling a lot of tubes I would suggest socket savers:
 
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
 
They also make it much easier to remove the tubes from the Lyr2.
 
Another 2 item I would suggest:
https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITLiquid-squeeze-tube-100-solution/dp/B0015A5AAY/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1477530346&sr=8-8&keywords=deoxit
 
https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1477530346&sr=8-12&keywords=deoxit

 

[Dr Metal MD]

  @Dr Metal MD, when I was still working full time I used to come home on Friday and turn on the amps and leave them on until I when to sleep on Sunday.  These days they may stay on for a few days at a time but I use a USB fan to keep the Lyr2 and BH Crack cool.
 
@Geekinside, for both of you if you will be rolling a lot of tubes I would suggest socket savers:
 
http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
 
They also make it much easier to remove the tubes from the Lyr2.
 
Another 2 item I would suggest:
https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITLiquid-squeeze-tube-100-solution/dp/B0015A5AAY/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1477530346&sr=8-8&keywords=deoxit
 
https://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-squeeze-tube-solution/dp/B003D8EA7A/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1477530346&sr=8-12&keywords=deoxit

 
So, how would you recommend handling tubes them in terms of temperature? I am entirely new to this and I usually shut my system down when I'm not listening to anything. How long do I keep it on at a time? What do I do when the tubes get really hot? Is there any indication I'll get that tells me I need to shut it down and let the tubes cool? 
 
I know what tube rolling means, just changing out your tubes for others, right? Others that have a different sound signature? However, if I am going to do it, do I just shut the amp off, take out the old ones, put in different ones, then let them warm up a bit before playing music?
 
Also, I already have Deoxit spray that I used on an old amp. The stuff works incredibly well. Will the spray work the same? It's this same product: https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477531058&sr=8-3&keywords=deoxit
 
How would I use it with the tubes? Just spray it onto the 9 prongs on the tube?
 
Pardon all the questions, just a total noob here. Thanks!

 

[DavidA]

   
So, how would you recommend handling tubes them in terms of temperature? I am entirely new to this and I usually shut my system down when I'm not listening to anything. How long do I keep it on at a time? What do I do when the tubes get really hot? Is there any indication I'll get that tells me I need to shut it down and let the tubes cool? 
 
I know what tube rolling means, just changing out your tubes for others, right? Others that have a different sound signature? However, if I am going to do it, do I just shut the amp off, take out the old ones, put in different ones, then let them warm up a bit before playing music?
 
Also, I already have Deoxit spray that I used on an old amp. The stuff works incredibly well. Will the spray work the same? It's this same product: https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1477531058&sr=8-3&keywords=deoxit
 
How would I use it with the tubes? Just spray it onto the 9 prongs on the tube?
 
Pardon all the questions, just a total noob here. Thanks!

I use a fan since I live in Hawaii where its on the warmer side.  Tubes are designed to operate at a certain temp so cooling it like I do is not something that is required, its just a habit of mine that comes from building computers where you want to keep things as cool as possible, heat is the enemy of performance and longevity of most computer parts, I don't know if this applies to tubes but I haven't seen any negative effect so far.  The fans that I use are these: https://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Dual-80mm-Cooling-Fans/dp/B002NVC1DS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477532696&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+power+fan
 
You can keep the Lyr2 on 24/7 but the life of the tubes will be reached much faster.  Tubes reach a temperature and pretty much stay there, they don't keep getting hotter the longer they are on.  As for turning off and on, my suggestion is turn on when you get home from work and turn off when you go to sleep, on the weekend you can turn on Friday afternoon and turn off Sunday night when you go to sleep.
 
Correct, tube rolling is changing tubes.  When changing tubes shut off the amp and let it cool for a few minutes before removing and replacing with different tubes.  One reason to get the socket savers is that they also make removal a lot easier and since the tubes are sticking out more they tend to run a touch cooler.  There are some pictures in the gallery of this thread of the socket savers and some of the recommend tubes by other posters.
 
The Deoxit formula you have is a great cleaner, the 2 that I listed are more like preservers to use after you do the cleaning.  Be careful when cleaning since the lettering on old vintage tubes will get rubbed off quite easily so handle tubes as little as possible.  I use cotton gloves designed to handle photos so I don't get any oil from my fingers on the tubes, its like mercury vapor and halogen bulbs where you don't want to get any oil from your fingers on the glass where it will cause a hot spot.  To use the cleaner you have I would spray a q-tip first, not directly on the pins of the tubes since the cleaner will remove the lettering on some tubes, but I think it would be better to just get the preservers since the red one is also a mild cleaner.

 

[Dr Metal MD]

  I use a fan since I live in Hawaii where its on the warmer side.  Tubes are designed to operate at a certain temp so cooling it like I do is not something that is required, its just a habit of mine that comes from building computers where you want to keep things as cool as possible, heat is the enemy of performance and longevity of most computer parts, I don't know if this applies to tubes but I haven't seen any negative effect so far.  The fans that I use are these: https://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-Dual-80mm-Cooling-Fans/dp/B002NVC1DS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477532696&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+power+fan
 
You can keep the Lyr2 on 24/7 but the life of the tubes will be reached much faster.  Tubes reach a temperature and pretty much stay there, they don't keep getting hotter the longer they are on.  As for turning off and on, my suggestion is turn on when you get home from work and turn off when you go to sleep, on the weekend you can turn on Friday afternoon and turn off Sunday night when you go to sleep.
 
Correct, tube rolling is changing tubes.  When changing tubes shut off the amp and let it cool for a few minutes before removing and replacing with different tubes.  One reason to get the socket savers is that they also make removal a lot easier and since the tubes are sticking out more they tend to run a touch cooler.  There are some pictures in the gallery of this thread of the socket savers and some of the recommend tubes by other posters.
 
The Deoxit formula you have is a great cleaner, the 2 that I listed are more like preservers to use after you do the cleaning.  Be careful when cleaning since the lettering on old vintage tubes will get rubbed off quite easily so handle tubes as little as possible.  I use cotton gloves designed to handle photos so I don't get any oil from my fingers on the tubes, its like mercury vapor and halogen bulbs where you don't want to get any oil from your fingers on the glass where it will cause a hot spot.  To use the cleaner you have I would spray a q-tip first, not directly on the pins of the tubes since the cleaner will remove the lettering on some tubes, but I think it would be better to just get the preservers since the red one is also a mild cleaner.

 
Yet again, thank you for your in-depth response. It's very helpful! Cheers.

 

[Dr Metal MD]

So, I've also been looking at the Mjolnir 2 which seems like an even better Lyr 2. Is that amp THAT much better than the Lyr 2 where I would want to save up even more to pick it up? It's definitely out of my budget, but I don't want to get the Lyr 2 and in a few months wish I would have gotten the Mjolnir 2. Have any of you compared these two head to head?

 

[Hardwired]

  So, I've also been looking at the Mjolnir 2 which seems like an even better Lyr 2. Is that amp THAT much better than the Lyr 2 where I would want to save up even more to pick it up? It's definitely out of my budget, but I don't want to get the Lyr 2 and in a few months wish I would have gotten the Mjolnir 2. Have any of you compared these two head to head?

 
I have both and listen to both on a daily basis. The Lyr 2 is at work and the MJ 2 is at home. The Lyr is paired with a Bifrost MB and the MJ is paired with a Gungnir MB. The more expensive set sounds better. How much? Well, not twice as good, certainly. The difference lies in subtle sound differences that you have to listen for, but are definitely audible once you hear them both. I prefer to listen to music instead of listening to what the gear does to the music and both sets of gear suit me wonderfully. You have to decide what you'll use your gear for to decide which one to get.
 
I consider the MJ 2 to be a balanced version of the Lyr 2 and let it go at that. Balanced sound is subtly but solidly better to my ears, but if you choose the Lyr 2 you have a perfectly great end-game amp that will satisfy you with whatever you listen to and you won't need special XLR plugs on your cans to get the most out of it, which is another expense to consider. However, you express concern that the MJ is out of your budget, so don't EVER get into the madness of tube rolling for either amp or your budget will shoot itself.
 
Both amps serve me as a headphone amp and as a speaker pre-amp and both are exactly what I want. You can't go wrong either way, but you can save a few hundred dollars if your brain will let you.

 

[Dr Metal MD]

   
I have both and listen to both on a daily basis. The Lyr 2 is at work and the MJ 2 is at home. The Lyr is paired with a Bifrost MB and the MJ is paired with a Gungnir MB. The more expensive set sounds better. How much? Well, not twice as good, certainly. The difference lies in subtle sound differences that you have to listen for, but are definitely audible once you hear them both. I prefer to listen to music instead of listening to what the gear does to the music and both sets of gear suit me wonderfully. You have to decide what you'll use your gear for to decide which one to get.
 
I consider the MJ 2 to be a balanced version of the Lyr 2 and let it go at that. Balanced sound is subtly but solidly better to my ears, but if you choose the Lyr 2 you have a perfectly great end-game amp that will satisfy you with whatever you listen to and you won't need special XLR plugs on your cans to get the most out of it, which is another expense to consider. However, you express concern that the MJ is out of your budget, so don't EVER get into the madness of tube rolling for either amp or your budget will shoot itself.
 
Both amps serve me as a headphone amp and as a speaker pre-amp and both are exactly what I want. You can't go wrong either way, but you can save a few hundred dollars if your brain will let you.

Thanks for your in-depth response. I am looking for the amp for in-home use for critical listening to essentially 100% vinyl playback. 
 
So, you're saying the difference in sound quality isn't night-and-day? You don't immediately notice the difference/improvement with the MJ2? 
 
I want to eventually get use balanced cables, but maybe I'll go for that after I upgrade my headphones in the distant future... I want to be able to use tubes and tube roll, hopefully without going nuts about chasing tons of tubes. Whichever amp I get will be my first introduction to tube rolling. If I get the Lyr 2,that extra $400+ will certainly help me get some more tubes to try ha. Also want to get the Tubemonger socket savers. 
 
I appreciate your advice. Since I'm upgrading from the Vali 1, I think the Lyr 2 will be a huge improvement and will most likely satisfy what I am looking for. I don't think I yet have the gear to do the MJ2 justice yet anyway. Maybe when I get a VPI turntable, some Audeze headphones, and a better phono stage and cartridge will I consider a headphone amp like the MJ ha. 

 

[Dr Metal MD]

Wonder what your guys' opinions are on this. How significant of an upgrade would the Lyr 2 or the MJ2 be over my Vali 1? Night and day immediate improvement or just a minor improvement that takes some listening to fully appreciate?

 

[franzdom]

This is more a tube thread now, I wonder how many still have Lyr 2 vs how many here have upgraded to MJ2 as I have?

 

[reddog]

This is more a tube thread now, I wonder how many still have Lyr 2 vs how many here have upgraded to MJ2 as I have?

I upgraded from the Lyr2 to the MJ2. However I collect amps and love how they can effect the sound signature. The MJ2 is a great amp and to me adds more versatility than the Lyr2.