[money4me247]

at all the above posts claiming the Lyr 2 is pure class A, you guys are all incorrect lol. ought to be ashamed of yourselves as lyr 2 owners.

Boogirl

"A refined Dynamically Adaptive output stage transitions seamlessly from Class A to Class AB, for excellent overall efficiency."
 
Topology: Dynamically Adaptive Class A/AB, noninverting, hybrid tube/MOSFET, single voltage gain stage, DC-coupled input and output

source: http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2

This means the Lyr 2 is a class AB hybrid tube amp.

 

[DavidA]

  Hi Forum
 
I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.
 
I would like to try out tube amping and am looking at either the Lyr 2 or the Project Ember to pair with the above equipment.
 
From going through the forums it would appear that both the Lyr 2 and the Project Ember are really good hybrids that work wonders for both the Q701s and the K712s.
 
 
On first glance, the Project Ember seems a very attractive option:
 
– The Project Ember (including UK shipping) works out about £100 cheaper than the Lyr 2
– The Project Ember only needs 1 tube as opposed to 2 tubes, and the tube is really easy to change 
– The Project Ember is said to match wonderfully with Qs and the Ks, with the appropriate tube
 
However, I am not just interested in functionality or the price; I am interested in sound quality. One thing I noticed was that the Project Ember is not an A Class amp, whereas the Schiit Lyr 2 is one – I was therefore wondering whether the Lyr 2's A Class status makes it better somehow than the Project Ember's non- A Class status, and if so, then how exactly?
 
There is also the point that the Lyr 2 uses two tubes, whereas Project Ember only uses one. I was wondering therefore what were the pros and cons of one tube hybrids vs two tube hybrids?
 
Clearly, I can see that the Project Ember would be the cheaper option down the line once I start tube rolling, since only a single tube would be required. However, would only having one tube as opposed to two affect the sound in some way? If it does, would someone please be able to explain to me how?
 
 
Thanks for reading my ramblings and I hope someone can help!

I have both the Lyr2 and Ember and they are both good solid amps.  The way that I have been using the two amps is having tubes that are different in each; might have bright tubes in Lyr2 and warm tube in Ember so that I can go back and forth between the two depending on which headphone and genre of music I feel like at the time.  I know this doesn't help you much but I find that the synergy between a headphone and amp changes with the tubes you use.  As an example: I like my HD-700, RS2e, HE-560, and HE-400i on the ember with a bugle boy tube which brings out the bass and tames the highs.  The Lyr2 pairs well with HD-650, SRH-1840 and LCD-2f
 
Lyr2: As you said changing 2 tubes is going to cost more but I found that it affects the sound more with the tubes that I currently have.  If you are going to roll many tubes I would suggest getting extenders like this : http://www.tubemonger.com/Tubemonger_Accesories_s/78.htm.  Another "issue" I have with the Lyr2 is that it gets hot, very hot.  Coming from a computer background I was always trying to keep electronics (computers, DVR, AMPs, etc) as cool as possible to prolong the life of the equipment.
 
Ember: best feature of the ember is the ability to change the out put impedance to match the headphone that you are using.   The ember also runs quite cool and with the open design heat is not an issue.
 
Bottom line: its hard to wrong with either, may come down to what headphones you have, I would look at the threads of the headphones that you have and see what amps are recommend for them.
 
Good luck

 

[Exacoustatowner]

at all the above posts claiming the Lyr 2 is pure class A, you guys are all incorrect lol. ought to be ashamed of yourselves as lyr 2 owners.

@Boogirl
source: http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2

This means the Lyr 2 is a class AB hybrid tube amp.

I belatedly edited my post. Embarrassed I am!

 

[money4me247]

I belatedly edited my post. Embarrassed I am!

hahah u shld b

also btw number of tubes does not correlate with OTL design or hybrid design. really can have however many tubes you wanna stick in there for either design. lyr 2 is a hybrid with solid state & tube just like ember.

 

[Exacoustatowner]

hahah u shld b

also btw number of tubes does not correlate with OTL design or hybrid design. really can have however many tubes you wanna stick in there for either design. lyr 2 is a hybrid with solid state & tube just like ember.

Thanks! I can barely look up from my shoes.

 

[Rem0o]

  I belatedly edited my post. Embarrassed I am!

Actually, I believe the bias of the Lyr adjusts depending on the load, going from class A for the first few mW then transistion in push-pull class AB for current hungry loads.

 

[rb2013]

  Hi Forum
 
I currently own the NFB11 & NFB15, and the Q701 & K712 Pro.
 
I would like to try out tube amping and am looking at either the Lyr 2 or the Project Ember to pair with the above equipment.
 
From going through the forums it would appear that both the Lyr 2 and the Project Ember are really good hybrids that work wonders for both the Q701s and the K712s.
 
 
On first glance, the Project Ember seems a very attractive option:
 
– The Project Ember (including UK shipping) works out about £100 cheaper than the Lyr 2
– The Project Ember only needs 1 tube as opposed to 2 tubes, and the tube is really easy to change 
– The Project Ember is said to match wonderfully with Qs and the Ks, with the appropriate tube
 
However, I am not just interested in functionality or the price; I am interested in sound quality. One thing I noticed was that the Project Ember is not an A Class amp, whereas the Schiit Lyr 2 is one – I was therefore wondering whether the Lyr 2's A Class status makes it better somehow than the Project Ember's non- A Class status, and if so, then how exactly?
 
There is also the point that the Lyr 2 uses two tubes, whereas Project Ember only uses one. I was wondering therefore what were the pros and cons of one tube hybrids vs two tube hybrids?
 
Clearly, I can see that the Project Ember would be the cheaper option down the line once I start tube rolling, since only a single tube would be required. However, would only having one tube as opposed to two affect the sound in some way? If it does, would someone please be able to explain to me how?
 
 
Thanks for reading my ramblings and I hope someone can help!

The Project Ember is only a tube buffer of an opamp output stage.  That is why it needs only one tube and can use a wide variety of tubes.  Having a tube buffer after an opamp is just adding tube noise over the solid state outputs.  A true tube output will have greater liquidity, musicality and holographic sound staging - with the better sounding tubes installed.  The Lyr2 uses a true DC heated tube output stage.
 
Class 'A' single ended mosfet amps have the purest sound, followed by the Class 'A' push-pull, then Class A/B.  The Lyr/Lyr2 uses adaptive biasing to switch from one mode to the next depending on power needs.
 
Music is dynamic and mostly require little current - then of course has dynamic passages.  All this depends on the kind of music you listen to.  During the majority of the music passage the Lyr/Lyr2 (they share the same output stage), remains in Class A, but during those peak transients where extra current is needed -the amp will 'adapt' it's biasing to provide more current - in real time.  So you don't notice it.  Class A/B is more power efficient but has what is called switching distortion - so it should be used at a min. 
 
So the Lyr/Lyr2 is the best of both worlds - Class A during those quieter passages where tonality is most noticed - but high current output(up to 6 Watts!) during loud and complex passages.  Really an engineering marvel!  Kudos to Schiit for such an innovative design.  The one downside is it runs warm - as all Class A amps do. 
 
Anyone who owns a Lyr/Lyr2 doubts it runs in class A - just play it for a few hours then put your hand on the top!
It's not the tubes making it warm - the design uses the case as a thermal heatsink for the class A mosfet output devices.
 
This noted reviewer called the Lyr one of best headphone amps ever made.

But I'd not recommend that preamp buyers pursue the Lyr as primary target. Its illustrious headphone performance only diminishes in that application. To equal it as a preamp takes longer green. And to jump ahead, to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4,000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5. 

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html

 

[rb2013]

at all the above posts claiming the Lyr 2 is pure class A, you guys are all incorrect lol. ought to be ashamed of yourselves as lyr 2 owners.

@Boogirl
source: http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2

This means the Lyr 2 is a class AB hybrid tube amp.

That is not true - period...

 

hahah u shld b

also btw number of tubes does not correlate with OTL design or hybrid design. really can have however many tubes you wanna stick in there for either design. lyr 2 is a hybrid with solid state & tube just like ember.

OTL refers to amps that use tubes as output devices.  It has nothing to do with hybrid designs.  In a hybrid design the pre-amp stage is tube and the output stage is solid state.  The OTL refers to 'Output Transformer Less', in amps with tube output stages there is a big mismatch in output impedance, there must be a coupling that converts the output impedance to the proper level.  Most tube amps use transformers, some do not.  Completely irrelevant when speaking of hybrid designs.  The outputs of hybrid solid state devices often use a coupling stage between the tube pre and the ss outputs.  These can be and often are large capacitors, but can be transformers, the Lyr uses a unique DC servo circuit.

 

[money4me247]

@ above. the lyr 2 is a hybrid adaptive class a/ab amp per schiit. not a true class a as people are claiming.

Topology: Dynamically Adaptive Class A/AB, noninverting, hybrid tube/MOSFET, single voltage gain stage, DC-coupled input and output

yes otl and hybrid designs are different. u misunderstand my post. i was clarifying that the number of tubes does not correlate to the amplifier's topology or class. it was a response to another post that claimed that the lyr is otl class a.

 

[rb2013]

This means the Lyr 2 is a class AB hybrid tube amp.

 

[money4me247]

:wink_face:

u cannot call a class ab amplifier that switches between classes as a pure class a amplifier. the definition of class ab means it switches between class a and class b. of course part of its operation is class a. lol

 

[Boogirl]

  The Project Ember is only a tube buffer of an opamp output stage.  That is why it needs only one tube and can use a wide variety of tubes.  Having a tube buffer after an opamp is just adding tube noise over the solid state outputs.  A true tube output will have greater liquidity, musicality and holographic sound staging - with the better sounding tubes installed.  The Lyr2 uses a true DC heated tube output stage.
 
Class 'A' single ended mosfet amps have the purest sound, followed by the Class 'A' push-pull, then Class A/B.  The Lyr/Lyr2 uses adaptive biasing to switch from one mode to the next depending on power needs.
 
Music is dynamic and mostly require little current - then of course has dynamic passages.  All this depends on the kind of music you listen to.  During the majority of the music passage the Lyr/Lyr2 (they share the same output stage), remains in Class A, but during those peak transients where extra current is needed -the amp will 'adapt' it's biasing to provide more current - in real time.  So you don't notice it.  Class A/B is more power efficient but has what is called switching distortion - so it should be used at a min. 
 
So the Lyr/Lyr2 is the best of both worlds - Class A during those quieter passages where tonality is most noticed - but high current output(up to 6 Watts!) during loud and complex passages.  Really an engineering marvel!  Kudos to Schiit for such an innovative design.  The one downside is it runs warm - as all Class A amps do. 
 
Anyone who owns a Lyr/Lyr2 doubts it runs in class A - just play it for a few hours then put your hand on the top!
It's not the tubes making it warm - the design uses the case as a thermal heatsink for the class A mosfet output devices.
 
This noted reviewer called the Lyr one of best headphone amps ever made.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html

Thank you rb2013 for this very helpfull information  

 

[rb2013]

u cannot call a class ab amplifier that switches between classes as a pure class a amplifier. the definition of class ab means it switches between class a and class b. of course part of its operation is class a. lol

You wouldn't want a 'pure' or strictly Class A solid state amp as it would have to be very large to have enough power to supply plenty of current at peak transients.  This would be a killer on the electric bill and put out tremendous heat ( I had a 100 watt class A Krell - it was a space heater).   Or it would be severely limited dynamically - especially on low impedance HPs.

 

[rb2013]

  Thank you rb2013 for this very helpfull information  

Glad to help - the review is really good and goes into a lot of depth.  It's the reason I bought my Lyr, it had me curious, at the time I had a Woo WA6SE.  With the right tubes the Lyr was better for me and I sold the Woo.  The tubes you use in the Lyr will make a big difference.
 
Here is the tube review thread I recently posted.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes

Cheers!

 

 

[money4me247]

You wouldn't want a 'pure' or strictly Class A amp as it would have to be very large to have enough power to supply plenty of current at peak transients.  This would be a killer on the electric bill and put out tremendous heat ( I had a 100 watt class A Krell - it was a space heater).   Or it would be severely limited dynamically - especially on low impedance HPs.

that is not true. the wa7 is pure class A and can run low impedance headphones. my issue with your post is that you are implying that the lyr 2s class ab is somehow special or a more pure class a than other class ab when a lot of class ab amps run purely class a when it is possible. that is how class ab works.

very good summary otherwise