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New model Cowon - Plenue D2

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by tiddlywinks, Jan 1, 2019.
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  1. mbphotox
    The headphone setting boosts gain for higher impedance headphones (I assume, because it sounds significantly louder when activated), but reducing volume to get back to the same spl shouldn't influence power drain...

    I would like to see, whether there's more noise to be measured, though.
  2. Ultrainferno
    shigzeo likes this.
  3. PaganDL
    Friendly PSA,

    After extensive time with the PD 2, over a month, personally & subjectively, most noticable difference between the two are sound levels on the PD 2 are not as 'loud' as on the PD, especially obvious with the same head gear, particularly anything over 32 ohms.
    This is not a negative in any way, just different.

    Noise & Hiss is also significantly less on the PD 2 which is expected.

    45 hours takes getting used to when used to 100 hours on the PD but not a negative in any way.

    Intital observations earlier in the thread remain the same, aside from different sound levels between PD & PD 2, sound quality is exactly the same & exceptional.

    Hope everyone has a great day !
  4. dsrk
    Hi All,
    Is there an option for A - B loop/repeat on Plenue D & D2?
  5. mbphotox
    @dsrk There is (at least on my PD2).. I wondered who could possible have a use for this.. :D

    @PaganDL Did you compare the PD2 to the PD at similar volume settings? i.e. Did you account for the fact that the PD volume has 100 steps (0-100), whereas the PD2 offers 140 steps (0-140)? (ergo, 50% volume would be 50 for the PD and 70 for the PD2!!!)
    Also, does the PD offer headphone setting? (headphone on/off)
    dsrk likes this.
  6. castleofargh Contributor
    about "particularly anything over 32 ohms", sensitivity is the relevant value, not impedance.
    taffy2207 likes this.
  7. PaganDL

    Hi @castleofargh,

    I am aware but Cowon doesn't state sensitivity on either specs page for PD or PD 2 & while the calculation can be worked out, I go by hearing, not by measurements, not to mention I listen at much lower volumes compared to most.

    So when the few higher impedance head gear I have sound 'quieter', while not unexpected, given the other related specs, on the PD 2 'compared' to the PD, it doesn't surprise but is definitely noticable which is why I mentioned it.

    Hope you have a great day !
  8. PaganDL

    Hi @mbphotox,

    Some people do use the AB loop function when comparing tracks with different head gear/speakers, etc.

    In answer to your question, yes, I did use the same volume settings initially on both PD & PD 2 as well as Jet Effect BBE Headphone is always on as I like the 3 db lift it gives across the frequency range on both but I did find it too low on the PD 2.

    Using the Sony IER M 7 as an example, while it doesn't have as high impedance as I initially thought, 24 ohms opposed to 32 Ohms +, it also has reasonable sensitivity at 103 db which should technically mean on paper, it should get average to reasonably loud in either case without issue.
    However, 10 db which due to BBE Headphone sounds more like 14 db on PD whereas sound level matched by ear on the PD 2, is actually 20 db or 23 db due to BBE Headphone.
    This is my minimum comfortable listening level in one ear for the M 7 on either device.
    When using both ears, the max I tend to listen on either device is 3 times more than above stated.

    Aside from volume steps, there are other factors to consider, output impedence, VRMS, SNR & the all important intangible tuning as well as user hearing, etc.

    No, PD does not have a dedicated headphone setting.

    Hope this all makes sense.

    Hope you have a great day !
  9. castleofargh Contributor
    about one DAP being able to go louder than the other one, I have no reason to doubt your experience. that's not what my remark was about. and I meant the sensi of the IEM/headphone used. when looking at an IEM, you will usually find 2 variables, sensi and impedance. sensi expresses loudness in dB SPL at 1khz for a mW of power sent into the IEM. so it should be natural to refer to the spec about dB SPL instead of impedance when trying to discuss notions of loudness. that's all. :wink:

    could it be that some of the DSPs are different? it wouldn't be the first time on DAPs that something has the same name but some variations in the actual effect on the following models. or maybe they simply use a different default gain reduction as a safety net to avoid clipping?

    anyway, no matter how much of a nitpicking jerk I am, I do appreciate you and everyone sharing as many observations as you can and spending your own time to test stuff.
    this little DAP keeps tempting me from afar, but I first need to get over my Cowon UI's PTSD. some previous models really tested the limits of my sanity. but everything else seems really cool.
  10. mbphotox
    @PaganDL did you use the earphone mode on the PD2 then (i.e. Headphone mode "off")?

    I don't like those BBEs, the bbe headphone gives the sound an unnaturally boomy characteristic, imho.
    Did you compare them at neutral settings too?
    E.g. Volume at 28 on the PD2 and 20 on the PD? (it should be linear steps, afaik)

    Anyways, it's possible that they changed the output impedance of the PD2 to get those high voltage numbers.
  11. PaganDL
    Hi @mbphotox,

    I use headphone modes on & off the PD 2 as there is no real difference for me either way though it is mostly it is on.

    As a general rule, not a fan of any sort of EQ function, as stated, the only reason I use that particular setting is due to the 3 db lift it gives across the frequencies.
    Just curious, what head gear &/or source quality are you using which makes the BBE Headphone setting sound boomy...

    Neutral settings is nice though as said, I prefer the lift in sound level.

    Output impedence is definitely changed though whether in a real world setting, that .5 ohm to 1 ohm along with the other numbers make much difference...

    More than likely, as also mentioned, there is something in the tuning which changes the overall sound output.

    Hope you have a great day !
  12. PaganDL

    More than likely.

    No problem.

    Hope you have a great day !
  13. mbphotox
    I use 24bit/96khz flac files with Grado RS2e, Beyer DT990 (not yet tested with PD2), Beyer DT1350, and iBasso IT01 (IEM)

    Haven't tested the BBE settings with anything other than the 1350, since I disliked all off them... I would like to see the EQ curves and effect settings for these BBE effects..
    I cannot believe that these are simply raising the volume across all frequencies.
    I think, the headphone bbe eq adds reverb too, making for the "boomy" sound.

    The headphone mode clearly lifts the volume up by a significant amount! (connected to my studio speakers, I have to reduce the volume setting by more than 10 after switching HP mode to "on")
  14. counterclockwise
    settings with bbe in the name include bbe processing, which is something quite different from EQ:
    supposedly it compensates for phase and amplitude distortions.
    all the presets sound overboard to me and i leave bbe off for headphone use, but for my iems bbe at 1(/10) is nice, when paired with an eq setting that lowers all frequencies by 1 to 3db (guess bbe needs some headroom to work its magic properly...).
  15. mbphotox
    Quote: The second major element in the BBE system is the augmentation of the higher and lower frequencies. Loudspeakers tend to be less efficient in their extreme treble and bass ranges.

    Sounds to me like a VERY BAD idea!
    My headphones already all share a slight u/v shape in their frequency response. (as to my home audio speakers)

    If one uses studio monitoring gear with perfectly flat FR curves (to reproduce the sound as it was recorded!), one doesn't want to alter the FR curve at all.
    With "fun" gear, there often already IS this u-shape and so there's no need to further boost that characteristic.

    Why would anyone want to listen to that?

    Also,the phase delay of different frequencies isn't that bad on good speakers (angled setup of drivers, for instance).
    Dunno about headphones, but I never had the feeling that the sound was off.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
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