New member recommendations DAC pairing

Feb 3, 2025 at 9:40 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 10

GilbertITH

New Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 3, 2025
Posts
7
Likes
1
Location
New York
Hi to all -

I have been reviewing credible articles on the sonic qualities and comfort of either Senn 600’s or HiFiman Sundara’s as I already have closed cans for travel. Most of what I listen to is either on Tidal or Apple Music downloads at Lossless and have a wide range of tastes from Jazz (Wes Montgomery, Chet Baker, Kingfish, Tai Farlow) to Classic Rock (Dead, Phish, Zep, Pink Floyd), Vocal artists (Diana Krall, Tony, Diane Schuur) and some classical.

While everyone has their own perspective I definitely want a more open sound stage as a priority which the Sundara’s appear to posses, again only from reviews as well as faster response. Will demo if possible to find both in one place, or get both and sell the other.

As far as pairing with a good desktop DAC there is some consensus that DacMagic 200M is a solid performer and own Cambridge gear - but then is the question will a entry level tube DAC like a XDUOO TA-84 OTL give the Sundara more warmth, more analog sound quality. I thought about the iFi hip-dac3 but portability is not a priority.

Appreciate comments on the pairing as am leaning towards the Sundara’s, even if perhaps somewhat less comfortable, again personal preference of other people.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Feb 3, 2025 at 9:53 PM Post #2 of 10
No, do not use a 30 ohm planar with an OTL amp. OTL's are for high impedance cans - generally 300-600, but in practice over 100 anyhow.

Sundaras like other planars want as much juice as they can get. Think SS.

The HD-600 on OTL's has the timbre down, but the lower bass/dynamics/staging not as good.
 
Feb 3, 2025 at 10:18 PM Post #3 of 10
No, do not use a 30 ohm planar with an OTL amp. OTL's are for high impedance cans - generally 300-600, but in practice over 100 anyhow.

Sundaras like other planars want as much juice as they can get. Think SS.

The HD-600 on OTL's has the timbre down, but the lower bass/dynamics/staging not as good.
Got it, thanks. Recall now the OTL was mentioned in conjunction with the HD-600 but no improvement as was stated for in piece where they said staging would improve. What SAC do you like then in the sub $400 price range?
 
Feb 3, 2025 at 11:39 PM Post #4 of 10
Got it, thanks. Recall now the OTL was mentioned in conjunction with the HD-600 but no improvement as was stated for in piece where they said staging would improve. What SAC do you like then in the sub $400 price range?
My experience with the 4 OTL's I know is that the staging went from 3 to 5 blobs. HD-600's do not image well. So far I only like R2R DAC's like Schiit makes, they do tend to be more expensive. The Sundara does not IMO have a much better stage. You'd be better off with the long cups - XS/Ananda/Arya/HEK.
 
Feb 4, 2025 at 3:42 AM Post #5 of 10
personally i’d choose the sundara over the 600, but I have not heard the original hd600 in a while (i own 6xx). I’d advise using the Sundaras with a warmer SS Dac/amp like most budget options from ifi (like the hip dac, the sundara paired well with the first gen i was using a while back)
 
Feb 4, 2025 at 7:53 AM Post #6 of 10
My experience with the 4 OTL's I know is that the staging went from 3 to 5 blobs. HD-600's do not image well. So far I only like R2R DAC's like Schiit makes, they do tend to be more expensive. The Sundara does not IMO have a much better stage. You'd be better off with the long cups - XS/Ananda/Arya/HEK.
Interesting as reviews mostly tout the soundstage of the Sundara - at least over the 600’s but all subjective. Given the higher power requirements of the 600’s do you think they’d benefit from a tube DAC?
 
Feb 4, 2025 at 8:20 AM Post #7 of 10
Interesting as reviews mostly tout the soundstage of the Sundara - at least over the 600’s but all subjective. Given the higher power requirements of the 600’s do you think they’d benefit from a tube DAC?
Certainly the Sundara has a better soundstage then the 600', and it's a widely held view because its correct. Lets say on the soundstage the 600's are a 50/100, the Sundara is a 65/100, the Arya Stealth is a 80/100, HEK SE 87/100, Senn HD-800S 92/100.

Too many folks use tubes as a form of EQ IMO. I'd much rather a R2R SS DAC over a tube Delta Sigma DAC of similar price, plus you avoid NOS tube chasing/replacement costs.

Let's back up. What do you have/want to replace & budget.
 
Last edited:
Feb 4, 2025 at 11:10 AM Post #8 of 10
Certainly the Sundara has a better soundstage then the 600', and it's a widely held view because its correct. Lets say on the soundstage the 600's are a 50/100, the Sundara is a 65/100, the Arya Stealth is a 80/100, HEK SE 87/100, Senn HD-800S 92/100.

Too many folks use tubes as a form of EQ IMO. I'd much rather a R2R SS DAC over a tube Delta Sigma DAC of similar price, plus you avoid NOS tube chasing/replacement costs.

Let's back up. What do you have/want to replace & budget.
Thanks for the stats - thoughts are empirical? so that would amount to about a 26% improvement with the Sundara vrs tge 600.

I heard tubes as a form of EQ elsewhere so makes sense and while I like a somewhat warm tone not a fan of overly bright high-end treble, guess closer to neutral plus a slight bit warm. From past experience I'd not noticed tubes wearing out that quickly but they do have a life span.

This set of headphones and DAC will be for laptop, perhaps phone, both iOS as I have Bose noise canceling cans for travel which are meant to block noise on flights or trains - not for fidelity. For these cans and DAC I would ideally like to stay under 1K which is certainly doable. I'd put comfort, some measure of sound stage and not harsh treble as the most important considerations. I had initially thought about closed cans but don't want the sound all in my head, if that makes sense.

The rest of my system in another room would likely not be used with these components - at this point. Focal Vestia #4's, and old Cambridge Azur 550A (long in the tooth but still fine) and Music Hall MMF-5, Some Sony BlueRay player I forget the model..

Certainly the Sundara has a better soundstage then the 600', and it's a widely held view because its correct. Lets say on the soundstage the 600's are a 50/100, the Sundara is a 65/100, the Arya Stealth is a 80/100, HEK SE 87/100, Senn HD-800S 92/100.

Too many folks use tubes as a form of EQ IMO. I'd much rather a R2R SS DAC over a tube Delta Sigma DAC of similar price, plus you avoid NOS tube chasing/replacement costs.

Let's back up. What do you have/want to replace & budget.
 
Feb 4, 2025 at 1:24 PM Post #9 of 10
HFM are generally bright side of neutral. You could go with a hybrid amp (tube pre and SS amp (like a Liquid Platinum used) a Schiit R2R DAC and the Sundara. Too bad u are on iOS. U can’t run a digital PEQ which would solve ur issues if any in the treble cheap (tone boosters on Android). Could also get both cans that amp and a cheaper dac
 
Feb 4, 2025 at 1:48 PM Post #10 of 10
HFM are generally bright side of neutral. You could go with a hybrid amp (tube pre and SS amp (like a Liquid Platinum used) a Schiit R2R DAC and the Sundara. Too bad u are on iOS. U can’t run a digital PEQ which would solve ur issues if any in the treble cheap (tone boosters on Android). Could also get both cans that amp and a cheaper dac
I am actually cross platform with a Lenovo P620 ThreadRipper - so could use a parametric on that machine. I did search for and found this iOS app though don't know anything about its performance: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ss-peq6-6-band-parametric-eq/id6448199872 - Thanks again.

Update:
Went to Audio46 today in NYC and had an awakening- listened to the Meze audio 105 AER and jettisoned the 600’s as being muddy IMO and while I liked the Sundara it was a bit thin sonically and with less level output using my iPhone with the WOO tube Mini DAC

While the WOO tube Mini were great with Meze a bitter warmer and slightly brighter, but really dislike the USB A plug, really and read it does not prevent a loud pop when disconnecting-so the DAC question at least was not resolved.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top