New Member and Request for IEM
Oct 13, 2019 at 1:23 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

sulcusgcs

New Head-Fier
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HI all,

I'm new here so I thought I would say hello. I've owned a paid of the ATH-M50 for years, most for use with my edrums and epiano. They are totally adequate for that purpose. I also use them to listen to music and it finally occurred to me that my music didn't sound all that good. So I set off in search of better headphones. I'm going to start with an office setup, and then when I have a sense of my preferences, get a better pair for home use to run through my PS Audio Sprout100. Along those lines, I recently ordered a JDS Atom, Hd 6xx, and DT770 250 Ohms (I have my own office at work so I figured I'd try both open and closed headphones, but none of this has arrived yet).

Now, along these same lines, I have been using Airpods for years and sort of just accepted that this sort of mobile headphone would sound bad. Obviously in my search for headphones above, I stumbled across a range of IEMs that will all sound much better. So I'm looking to upgrade. A friend of mine recently lent me his Shure SE215s and at first I was blown away. Simply having any isolation at all was a huge improvement over Airpods. But now that I've settled in with them I find the sound pretty much lacking in most respects. So I would love some advice on where to go from here?

My budget is fairly flexible. Considering I would use these every day when I'm not at my desk, and even at home, I don't see much value in starting cheap only to inevitably upgrade. On the other hand, I am so inexperienced that diving into the deep end seems silly since I don't really know what i like or want in an IEM (other than a good seal).

Some pairs I have been considering:
-Ety ER4XR (though I am worried about comfort on these, but these were highly recommended at the $350 range and they are $230 on Amazon now)
-Moondrop Blessing (Highly rated on Crinacle's list) or KXXS
-I've also been looking at used Campfire Andros (and other of their higher-end range), but again, I'm not sure now is the time in my listening journey to really understand these.

I will be listening through my iPhone 6s through iTunes, possible with an ES100 at times for the bluetooth and EQ.

I listen to a wide variety of music, including pop, classical, OST, rock, jazz, and EDM. I do not listen to country, rap, or metal.

Thanks very much. I'm looking forward to becoming a member of this community.
 
Oct 13, 2019 at 1:49 PM Post #3 of 15
Do you maybe have a feel for what kind of bass performance you are looking for out of this?

It's a hard question for me to answer given my lack of experience. I do like bass, and as a drummer I naturally gravitate to listening for the bass line. Using what is likely imprecise language, I would say I want something articulate and clean with good separation. I don't think I want boomy.
 
Oct 13, 2019 at 3:38 PM Post #4 of 15
There are a million. Not knowing a whole lot, I am just going to throw one of those million at you and you can see what you think. It's a lot less expensive than an Andromeda, but quite a bit more than some of the good, inexpensive Chi-fi offerings that are so popular. The one I am thinking of is the iBasso IT04 Maybe read about it and see what you think. It could tick some boxes. It's a good company, in my opinion. It could conceivably work. Might be worth looking into.
 
Oct 13, 2019 at 6:39 PM Post #5 of 15
Hey sulcusgcs,
I doubt that I'm gonna to be able to make any specific recommendations, but I can offer some general advice:
First, wait until you get the HD 6XX and DT 770 and see what you do and don't like about them. This will give you something of a reference for what sort of tuning/signature you enjoy, so you can get better advice in picking out your IEM later.
I'd also recommend spending a bit of time with them so that you can get used to their sound signatures; I can totally see being immediately wowed by one and underwhelmed by the other, but later having your opinions change (like you did with your friend's Shure IEMs). Maybe pick up some cheapie IEMs to tide you over in the interim, if need be.

Second, if you end up really liking one of your headphones and don't want to be constantly struck with upgrade-itis, get the best IEMs you can afford, but don't get anything that's going to make your best headphones pale by comparison. There's nothing worse in the world of audio than thinking OMG! These headphones are DDDOOOPPPEEE!!! and then hearing something that makes your dope headphones sound bad by comparison. My method is to plan on spending around the same as the MSRP of your favorite headphone (remember, the HD 6XX is a rebranded HD 650 that retails for $500, and the DT 770 also used to retail for a lot more than it goes for now).

Anyway, hope this helps at least a little.
 
Oct 13, 2019 at 7:21 PM Post #6 of 15
There are a million. Not knowing a whole lot, I am just going to throw one of those million at you and you can see what you think. It's a lot less expensive than an Andromeda, but quite a bit more than some of the good, inexpensive Chi-fi offerings that are so popular. The one I am thinking of is the iBasso IT04 Maybe read about it and see what you think. It could tick some boxes. It's a good company, in my opinion. It could conceivably work. Might be worth looking into.
Thanks. I'll read up on them and investigate further!
 
Oct 13, 2019 at 7:23 PM Post #7 of 15
Hey sulcusgcs,
I doubt that I'm gonna to be able to make any specific recommendations, but I can offer some general advice:
First, wait until you get the HD 6XX and DT 770 and see what you do and don't like about them. This will give you something of a reference for what sort of tuning/signature you enjoy, so you can get better advice in picking out your IEM later.
I'd also recommend spending a bit of time with them so that you can get used to their sound signatures; I can totally see being immediately wowed by one and underwhelmed by the other, but later having your opinions change (like you did with your friend's Shure IEMs). Maybe pick up some cheapie IEMs to tide you over in the interim, if need be.

Second, if you end up really liking one of your headphones and don't want to be constantly struck with upgrade-itis, get the best IEMs you can afford, but don't get anything that's going to make your best headphones pale by comparison. There's nothing worse in the world of audio than thinking OMG! These headphones are DDDOOOPPPEEE!!! and then hearing something that makes your dope headphones sound bad by comparison. My method is to plan on spending around the same as the MSRP of your favorite headphone (remember, the HD 6XX is a rebranded HD 650 that retails for $500, and the DT 770 also used to retail for a lot more than it goes for now).

Anyway, hope this helps at least a little.
Thanks so much for this thoughtful advice. It makes a lot of sense. I agree that the upgrade-itis I see is not something I want to get involved with. I really like the idea of spending time with what I have, figuring out what I want, and then getting something awesome that achieves it.
 
Oct 13, 2019 at 10:11 PM Post #8 of 15
HI all,

I'm new here so I thought I would say hello. I've owned a paid of the ATH-M50 for years, most for use with my edrums and epiano. They are totally adequate for that purpose. I also use them to listen to music and it finally occurred to me that my music didn't sound all that good. So I set off in search of better headphones. I'm going to start with an office setup, and then when I have a sense of my preferences, get a better pair for home use to run through my PS Audio Sprout100. Along those lines, I recently ordered a JDS Atom, Hd 6xx, and DT770 250 Ohms (I have my own office at work so I figured I'd try both open and closed headphones, but none of this has arrived yet).

Now, along these same lines, I have been using Airpods for years and sort of just accepted that this sort of mobile headphone would sound bad. Obviously in my search for headphones above, I stumbled across a range of IEMs that will all sound much better. So I'm looking to upgrade. A friend of mine recently lent me his Shure SE215s and at first I was blown away. Simply having any isolation at all was a huge improvement over Airpods. But now that I've settled in with them I find the sound pretty much lacking in most respects. So I would love some advice on where to go from here?

My budget is fairly flexible. Considering I would use these every day when I'm not at my desk, and even at home, I don't see much value in starting cheap only to inevitably upgrade. On the other hand, I am so inexperienced that diving into the deep end seems silly since I don't really know what i like or want in an IEM (other than a good seal).

Some pairs I have been considering:
-Ety ER4XR (though I am worried about comfort on these, but these were highly recommended at the $350 range and they are $230 on Amazon now)
-Moondrop Blessing (Highly rated on Crinacle's list) or KXXS
-I've also been looking at used Campfire Andros (and other of their higher-end range), but again, I'm not sure now is the time in my listening journey to really understand these.

I will be listening through my iPhone 6s through iTunes, possible with an ES100 at times for the bluetooth and EQ.

I listen to a wide variety of music, including pop, classical, OST, rock, jazz, and EDM. I do not listen to country, rap, or metal.

Thanks very much. I'm looking forward to becoming a member of this community.

Hi friend, headphones and IEMs have different strengths and weaknesses. Most IEMs cannot compete with headphones (especially open backed ones) in the soundstage department, but IEMs are more for their isolation, easy drivability and portability. With your ES100 I think most IEMs should be drivable enough.

I agree with the above posters that you should wait for your DT770 and HD6XX and see if u like the tuning. I would also advise to start with a cheap pair of IEMs and upgrade from there. In case u don't like the tuning it would be money down the drain if u start from a midfi or summitFI IEM.

I have been using IEMs for the past 15 years for stage monitoring and music listening and for comparisons, I have used the Shure SE215 before and IMHO, it is not very good in sound quality for the price charged. They are better sets out there for price to performance ratio especially the CHIFI brands, which for the past 2 years have given a superb run for money with the budget to midfi western segment at a fraction of the price. Of course music and gear is subjective, so YMMV.

In general IEMs have dynamic drivers (DD) or balanced armature (BA) drivers or a mixture of both (hybrids). Some use newer tech like piezo, electrostatic or planar drivers also. Generally the DD IEMs give better timbre and their bass has more decay and subbass. Whereas in general the BAs give better clarity/instrument separation and details. Hybrids combine the best of both worlds but they have issues occasionally with crossover etc. So it depends on your music preferences and genres as to what type of IEM to get too.

If you like something that is more of an allrounder, do check out the recently released CHIFI IEMs that are < $50 USD: CCA C12, TRN V90, KZ ZSX. They all have great reviews in the CHIFI thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/
I have the predecessor of the above KZ ZSX, and it is the KZ ZS10 Pro ($35 USD), which blows the Shure SE215 out of the water in terms of details, clarity and instrument separation. The KSX is an improvement over the ZS10 Pro in terms of timbre from the reviews, but I haven't tried these new releases.

I haven't tried the IEMs in your shortlist, but from reviews on headfi that compare other IEMs with them that I own:
Ety ER4XR - I think most audiophiles would prefer these as reference IEMs. But I have read reviews that the Audiosense T800 ($298 USD, 8BA knowles) can get more details and clarity than them. The T800 has excellent instrument separation, clarity and details and some headfiers say they can hit 80 - 90% sound quality of a campfire andromeda at a fraction of the price. I don't have the Etys or CA andromedas to say for sure, but the T800 are my end game multi BA set which I use extensively for stage monitoring.
KXXS - very good reviews and harmanish tuning. I saw some reviews that the BLON BL-03 ($28 USD) is tuned similarly to the KXXS but at a fraction of the price. It might lose out to the KXXS a bit in terms of refinement and details but IMHO, it is worth a punt at the price to see if u like this tuning.
The BLON BL-03 excels at timbre and tonality but might not be the best for details and clarity.


Anyway I hope u find what you are looking for, all the best in your search. But do watch your wallet in headfi LOL, it is a neverending chase down the rabbit hole!
 
Last edited:
Oct 13, 2019 at 11:43 PM Post #9 of 15
Hi friend, headphones and IEMs have different strengths and weaknesses. Most IEMs cannot compete with headphones (especially open backed ones) in the soundstage department, but IEMs are more for their isolation, easy drivability and portability. With your ES100 I think most IEMs should be drivable enough.

I agree with the above posters that you should wait for your DT770 and HD6XX and see if u like the tuning. I would also advise to start with a cheap pair of IEMs and upgrade from there. In case u don't like the tuning it would be money down the drain if u start from a midfi or summitFI IEM.

I have been using IEMs for the past 15 years for stage monitoring and music listening and for comparisons, I have used the Shure SE215 before and IMHO, it is not very good in sound quality for the price charged. They are better sets out there for price to performance ratio especially the CHIFI brands, which for the past 2 years have given a superb run for money with the budget to midfi western segment at a fraction of the price. Of course music and gear is subjective, so YMMV.

In general IEMs have dynamic drivers (DD) or balanced armature (BA) drivers or a mixture of both (hybrids). Some use newer tech like piezo, electrostatic or planar drivers also. Generally the DD IEMs give better timbre and their bass has more decay and subbass. Whereas in general the BAs give better clarity/instrument separation and details. Hybrids combine the best of both worlds but they have issues occasionally with crossover etc. So it depends on your music preferences and genres as to what type of IEM to get too.

If you like something that is more of an allrounder, do check out the recently released CHIFI IEMs that are < $50 USD: CCA C12, TRN V90, KZ ZSX. They all have great reviews in the CHIFI thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/
I have the predecessor of the above KZ ZSX, and it is the KZ ZS10 Pro ($35 USD), which blows the Shure SE215 out of the water in terms of details, clarity and instrument separation. The KSX is an improvement over the ZS10 Pro in terms of timbre from the reviews, but I haven't tried these new releases.

I haven't tried the IEMs in your shortlist, but from reviews on headfi that compare other IEMs with them that I own:
Ety ER4XR - I think most audiophiles would prefer these as reference IEMs. But I have read reviews that the Audiosense T800 ($298 USD, 8BA knowles) can get more details and clarity than them. The T800 has excellent instrument separation, clarity and details and some headfiers say they can hit 80 - 90% sound quality of a campfire andromeda at a fraction of the price. I don't have the Etys or CA andromedas to say for sure, but the T800 are my end game multi BA set which I use extensively for stage monitoring.
KXXS - very good reviews and harmanish tuning. I saw some reviews that the BLON BL-03 ($28 USD) is tuned similarly to the KXXS but at a fraction of the price. It might lose out to the KXXS a bit in terms of refinement and details but IMHO, it is worth a punt at the price to see if u like this tuning.
The BLON BL-03 excels at timbre and tonality but might not be the best for details and clarity.


Anyway I hope u find what you are looking for, all the best in your search. But do watch your wallet in headfi LOL, it is a neverending chase down the rabbit hole!
Wow thank you so much for taking the time to write all of this. Incredible. I'm going to check out the CHIFI thread and maybe dabble in a few inexpensive offerings. If I do that I'll let you know what I get. I'll also post my impressions of my cans when I have some hours under my belt. Out of curiosity, what bands/tracks do you like to use to test out new equipment?
 
Oct 14, 2019 at 12:37 AM Post #10 of 15
Wow thank you so much for taking the time to write all of this. Incredible. I'm going to check out the CHIFI thread and maybe dabble in a few inexpensive offerings. If I do that I'll let you know what I get. I'll also post my impressions of my cans when I have some hours under my belt. Out of curiosity, what bands/tracks do you like to use to test out new equipment?

I listen mostly to jazz, instrumental and acoustic, so I may not be the best person to give advise for test tracks in view of my limited genres. And for my general music listening, I place more emphasis on timbre and tonality than absolute details and clarity (I prefer DD type of timbre), and I'm a basshead too.
I'm sure the others can give better suggestions for test tracks as they may give emphasis to other areas of music and listen more widely. I'm quite atypical as most reviewers don't really care so much about instrumental timbre, but unfortunately I'm OCD about it.
I also use some youtube or online aids for test tones and frequency sweeps, there are many u can find for free.

But FWIW:
For subbass extension and timbre of bass:
- Michael Buble - Me and Mrs Jones
- Karen Souza - Billie Jean
- Karen Souza - Tainted Love

For timbre of acoustical instruments and instrument separation/details/clarity/soundstage/tonality
- Michael Buble - Come Fly With Me
- Lisa Ono - I Wish You Love
- Jamie Cullum - What a Difference a Day Makes
- Kenny G - Over the Rainbow
- Inger Marie Gundersen - I Don't Wanna Talk About It
- Westlife - Ain't That a Kick In the Head
- Simone Kopmajer - Close To You

For Vocals/testing sibilance
- Michael Buble - Fever
- Lisa Ono - Moonlight Serenade
- Michael Buble - Quando, Quando, Quando
- Diana Krall - The Look of Love
- Ledisi - In a Sentimental Mood
- George Michael - Kissing A Fool

Maybe u can give me some suggestions for test tracks too!
 
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Oct 14, 2019 at 2:44 PM Post #11 of 15
I listen mostly to jazz, instrumental and acoustic, so I may not be the best person to give advise for test tracks in view of my limited genres. And for my general music listening, I place more emphasis on timbre and tonality than absolute details and clarity (I prefer DD type of timbre), and I'm a basshead too.
I'm sure the others can give better suggestions for test tracks as they may give emphasis to other areas of music and listen more widely. I'm quite atypical as most reviewers don't really care so much about instrumental timbre, but unfortunately I'm OCD about it.
I also use some youtube or online aids for test tones and frequency sweeps, there are many u can find for free.

But FWIW:
For subbass extension and timbre of bass:
- Michael Buble - Me and Mrs Jones
- Karen Souza - Billie Jean
- Karen Souza - Tainted Love

For timbre of acoustical instruments and instrument separation/details/clarity/soundstage/tonality
- Michael Buble - Come Fly With Me
- Lisa Ono - I Wish You Love
- Jamie Cullum - What a Difference a Day Makes
- Kenny G - Over the Rainbow
- Inger Marie Gundersen - I Don't Wanna Talk About It
- Westlife - Ain't That a Kick In the Head
- Simone Kopmajer - Close To You

For Vocals/testing sibilance
- Michael Buble - Fever
- Lisa Ono - Moonlight Serenade
- Michael Buble - Quando, Quando, Quando
- Diana Krall - The Look of Love
- Ledisi - In a Sentimental Mood
- George Michael - Kissing A Fool

Maybe u can give me some suggestions for test tracks too!
Thanks! I love seeing what people are actually listening to with all this great equipment. I'll have to check out the Ledisi rendition of In a Sentimental Mood. I love the Coltrane/Hartman arrangement and Dana Owens's as well.

I don't have a solid test track playlist yet since I just started with headphones but here is what I pulled together last night thinking about possibilities:
Massive Attack: Angel, Teardrop
Norah Jones: Shoot the Moon, It Was You
The Flaming Lips: Race for the Prize
Foo Fighters: Everlong
The Beatles: Come Together, I want You, Rocky Raccoon, Taxman
Daft Punk: The Grid
Chick Corea: Day Danse
Gladiator OST: The Might of Rome
Jamie xx: Gosh
Kazune Shimezu: Chopin Ballade No. 1 in g minor, Nocturne No. 13 in c minor
Mike Stern: Avenue B, Remember
Nina Simone: Since I Fell for You
Pat Metheny: The Sound of Silence
Pearl Jam: Evenflow
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 1:20 PM Post #15 of 15
Andros might be good for female vocals, but IE800 is a beast at OST and all classical musical music.
I appreciate the explanation, but to be honest that's pretty vague and over my head given my lack of experience. I think I'm going to hold off for a while while I develop my ear with the two new headphones I just ordered.
 

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