[314Stone]

AiDee, if I understood you correctly, you also think that it is possible that a neutral sounding amp X can sound more bass heavy than another neutral sounding amp Y, if the amp X can produce more detail in lower frequencies (and in other frequencies too in order to sound neutral) than the amp Y ?
 
But could it be that before you are able to listen and enjoy the sound of the amp X giving you much more detailed info about the music/sound than your old amp Y, you have to first teach your brain to process/handle more detailed music/sound information than your brain is used to?  And the more detailed music/sound information you teach your brain to process/handle, the more expensive amps, DACs, headphones, speakers etc. you are able to find enjoying/desirable?
 
And if we go back to Lieven's review related to Classic, it could be that the combo V200 and HE500/LCD2 may sound different to his the ears than the combo Classic and HE500/LCD2, because
a) V200 is not so neutral sounding than the Classic (i.e. V200 exaggerates something in the music more, lower frequencies and dynamics perhaps?) and
b) V200 gives you more detailed information about the music/sound than the Classic.

 

[Ultrainferno]

You didnt adk me but:

V200 does have more bass, more body and a warmer sound. I dont find it as detailed as the corda but it is warmer sounding and more dynamic to me. The corda is the more neutral one

 

[Argo Duck]

Hi 314, this is something I'm speculating about, semi-professionally. I'm a research psychologist but not in the area of perception. That's why I call it a speculation, not a hypothesis.

Nevertheless, I've wondered how two neutral dacs in the case I cited could sound subjectively different in the bass area, and my speculation is that resolution/detail might be one explanation. There are other variables though, e.g. different distortion spectra which I've discussed with a couple of EE friends. Electronics is not my area either and I only vaguely understand what they're talking about. Indeed, Ultrainferno's example above shows detail can't be the only variable.

Another possibility is subtle frequency-response differences, supposing it's the integral (summed area) of the difference between the response curves rather than the instantaneous difference at a given frequency that we 'hear'. But this is just another speculation of mine which so far I've only discussed (inconclusively) with one EE. Speculation is easy; coming up with stuff that actually might be true is much harder!

In terms of your question in your second paragraph, I assume it's more a matter of how one has naturally learned to hear, rather than explicitly teaching oneself to hear in this way. In my case, with the DAC I mentioned, it may be that my brain at some time learned to decode more bass detail as "more bass". Someone else might hear it differently. Of course, I hear a deliberately bass-heavy component as "more bass" too, so this is where real measurements become useful to know which situation is which.

Your concluding points (a) and (b) could certainly be inferred from my speculation, but - again - Ultrainferno's response shows there are other factors in play and other explanations even in the unlikely event the speculation is correct.

 

[314Stone]

Thank you AiDee for opening more your interesting speculations concerning factors affecting how you/we hear the music coming from , for example, amp/HP combo. This is a very interesting topic and I very much would like to continue changing ideas and opinions about it, but perhaps this forum is not the right place to go deeper into this topic.
 
By the way I am also from Finland.

 

[SunTanScanMan]

Hello all.
After a long time saving up, ordered T1 + Classic + Daccord from Jan this morning. Has been posted this morning. Will be connecting the set up to my PC.
 
Previous set up wasPC > USB cable >  HRT microstreamer > Audio Technica ATH AD700X - Both are very decent equipment, but the headphones were getting too uncomfortable. (small edit: recently washed my earpads and they seem to have 'puffed up' and hold onto the head much more securely)
 
I've recently become interested in improving my audio set up and the Head-fi discussion threads for meier products helped me a lot when choosing them over what seemed to me like an ocean of other products out there. I'm very happy with my investment, so thanks all  
 
Think I should add my appreciation on Jan's quick and friendly response and to my queries.
 
Can't wait. Hope the equipment has a safe journey to the UK from Germany.

 

[Scarfin]

  Hello all.
After a long time saving up, ordered T1 + Classic + Daccord from Jan this morning. Has been posted this morning. Will be connecting the set up to my PC.
 
Previous set up wasPC > USB cable >  HRT microstreamer > Audio Technica ATH AD700X - Both are very decent equipment, but the headphones were getting too uncomfortable. 
 
I've recently become interested in improving my audio set up and the Head-fi discussion threads for meier products helped me a lot when choosing them over what seemed to me like an ocean of other products out there. I'm very happy with my investment, so thanks all  
 
Think I should add my appreciation on Jan's quick and friendly response and to my queries.
 
Can't wait. Hope the equipment has a safe journey to the UK from Germany.

 
Awesome! Can't wait to hear your first impressions. I'll order Daccord + Classic before the end of the month. Still haven't decided if I choose T1 or HD800 to pair with the stack.

 

[SunTanScanMan]

   
Awesome! Can't wait to hear your first impressions. I'll order Daccord + Classic before the end of the month. Still haven't decided if I choose T1 or HD800 to pair with the stack.

 I had the same dilemma. A lot of comparison out there on these two headphones... I would like to say that I went with the T1 because of users saying that it suited a broader range of music styles than the HD800...
 
But I would be lying. 
 
I chose the T1 mostly because I liked its more conservative design. Even if classical music (which I listen to a lot) may sound better on the HD800, I just could not get used to its space age design. Being a uni student I did have some time to think about it, while saving up for over a year... 
 
There I said it.... don't judge me too harshly for choosing a headphone on aesthetics  

 

[Argo Duck]

^ Aesthetics seems an excellent basis of choice. All of my girlfriends have been chosen with aesthetic considerations a significant factor!

Back on topic, I think you will find your T1 - Classic - Daccord (I own the StageDAC) combination excellent.

314Stone, I agree this is not the right forum! Btw, I must apologise for unwittingly misleading you about where I live. "Finn-land" is a play on the name of the Finn brothers, prominent musicians in my country New Zealand. The younger had a US hit with his song Don't dream it's over. I live in the region where the brothers were born and grew up.

 

[SunTanScanMan]

^ Aesthetics seems an excellent basis of choice. All of my girlfriends have been chosen with aesthetic considerations a significant factor!

Back on topic, I think you will find your T1 - Classic - Daccord (I own the StageDAC) combination excellent.

314Stone, I agree this is not the right forum! Btw, I must apologise for unwittingly misleading you about where I live. "Finn-land" is a play on the name of the Finn brothers, prominent musicians in my country New Zealand. The younger had a US hit with his song Don't dream it's over. I live in the region where the brothers were born and grew up.

Speaking of going off topic - I also seem to have done too in my last post, so apologies . But I hope to remedy this by writing my impressions of the Corda Classic once I've had some time with it. From my current setup I imagine I will notice some difference.

 

[Argo Duck]

^ Look forward to your impressions

Don't think you went off topic at all! The T1, LCD2 and from what I hear LCD3 and HD800 are all great matches with the Classic. After all, without headphones we wouldn't be able to talk about this amp

 

[Jan Meier]

Dear headfellows,
 
from the comments on Head-Fi it shows that various people seem to be somewhat disappointed by the CLASSIC/DACCORD-review on Headfonia.
 
To be honest, although Lieven clearly stated that the CLASSIC is not his favourite amp, I myself am pretty pleased by this review. The sonic signatures of amp and DAC were well and honestly described and the merits of this combo were made clear. Lieven did recognize the qualities of both devices, just indicated that his personal preferences with regard to the amp were somewhat different. That is a very valid and honorable approach.
 
On my website you will never find a sentence like “this is the very best amplifier on the market” or “you won’t find any better headphone than this”. The appreciation of equipment is a very personal one. I do sell headphones that personally I don’t like very much but whose merits I do recognize nonetheless and of whom I can understand that other people adore them. There simply isn’t something like the “best” or “this amp suits all”.
 
Yes, I don’t feel very comfortable with the reviews by Mike. His personal preferences clearly are not my preferences and as he clearly doesn’t like the CORDA sound he did “bash” them. The distinction between “technical” merits and personal taste was not made. The description of e.g. crossfeed was strongly lacking. And a remark that CORDA equipment is well suited for sound-engineers but not for consumers I personally find rather “strange”. Sound-engineers spend thousands of dollars on studio-equipment that should be as neutral as possible to make their recordings and mixings sound as good as they can and then this kind of equipment shouldn’t be suited for consumers??
 
In this context one should well be aware that it is probably the most difficult discipline to make a neutral piece of equipment that still sounds musical and fluent without any solid-state nastinesses / harshnesses. To make a warm sounding amp with more “Oomph” without ultimate detail is a much easier exercise. The fact that many amps have such “consumer-friendly” sound may well have to do with this, not just by the “average” taste.
 
CORDA amplifiers do not produce a WOW-effect! I’ve learned that equipment that does something particularly well always has deficits in other disciplines. Although maybe lots of fun at first hearing they’re often not well suited for long-term use because they always superimpose their own character on the sound. Sometimes in a nice way, but sometimes also in a negative way. Equipment that simply gets out of the way and doesn’t add anything to the recording and doesn’t leave anything out to my ears is much more satisfying in the long run. That’s how I personally like it and that’s how I design my products.
 
As a side note please be aware that it is quite simple to change to sound of both CLASSIC and DACCORD. The opamps used in these devices are socketed and can be easily exchanged by other brands/models. A different opamp really can make a difference in sound.
 
Parameters for the opamps:
 
Enclosure: 8-pin PDIP
Suppyvoltages CLASSIC: +/- 18V
Suppyvoltages DACCORD: +/- 15V
Pin2: -input
Pin3: +input
Pin4: -18V / -15V
Pin6: output
Pin7: +18V / +15V
Pin1/5/8: Not connected (NC)
 
Both the CLASSIC and the DACCORD need 6 opamps each.
 
Should people do experiment with opamps their comments on Head-Fi would be strongly appreciated.
 
Cheers
 
Jan

 

[lithium1085]

Hi Jan,
 
Thanks for the classy comment above and the info about the opamps. I for one really liked the headfonia review even though Lieven did not find it to be his personal best. I was looking at the Corda Classic and I was wondering if you could give some more specs for the amp. Particularly, power delivery into various loads, THD and SNR. 
Thanks again

 

[Jan Meier]

Dear Lithium,
 
As for power, this strongly depends on the amplitude of the input signal and the impedance of the load. For a given impedance it can be calculated from:
 

Maximum output voltage:         10 Volts (2 Volts analog input)

Maximum output current:          500 mA / channel

 

All values rms!

 

These values are enough to make your ears bleed with almost any headphone.

 

As for THD, I never have been able to measure. My equipment simply isn't precise enough. I can't measure below 0.2%

 

SNR depends on many factors like amplification factor and signal amplitude but the manufacturer did some standard measurements for the CONCERTO (predecessor of the CLASSIC) and came to values between 130 and 140 dB. Shouldn't be a problem. Most people report CORDA amplifiers to have a very black background.

 

To be honest though, I never look too much at technical measurements when I develop a new model. A lot is done by ear!

 

Cheers

 

Jan

 

 

 

[lithium1085]

So assuming a perfect voltage source, I get 2W RMS power into a 50 ohm load. Pretty impressive! Kudos on the volume control as well, too many people cheap out on such an essential part.

 

[314Stone]

For Skylab Jan has provided a couple years ago following info about the maximum output of Classic:
 

1. At 600 Ohm: 160 mW / channel
2. At 300 Ohm: 320 mW / channel
3. At 50 Ohm: 1.9 W / channel
4. At 30 Ohm: 3.2 W / channel

 
Jan suspected that "CORDA amplifiers do not produce a WOW-effect". I am not sure this is true. When you at first time hear a neutral sounding good quality equipment like the Classic, it is possible that they do not give you an immediate WOW -feeling, especially if you have been accustomed to hear equipments exaggerating bass and dynamic. But if you have enough patience and keep on listening to them, after a while you start to hear details and nuances in the music you have not heard before. At this point come the WOW -feelings and they continue to keep on coming after that.