[Mimouille]

  Where do people get this idea? They're neither hot nor thin unless your source is.

People who like the Earsonics house sound might prefer much less trebble ?

 

[Sorensiim]

  Is there any evidence that more drivers gives better technical results?  More drivers would appear to be harder to wire, control, and compensate for resonances and crossover frequency issues.  If more drivers always gives better technical sound then we may all be upgrading forever and there will never be an IEM that is technically the best.
 
What is the limit on how many drivers any company can physically fit into the shell of an IEM?

I was honestly quite sceptical when I heard about the 10-driver K10 from Noble, but I was proven wrong. The fact that they end up sounding as ONE coherent driver is actually what impresses me most about them. Well, apart from the sound, off course.
 
I'd say the Roxanne deserves the benefit of the doubt, let's wait for someone to actually hear them before claiming that JH were just playing the numbers game. 

 

[Girls Generation]

  I think Jerry realized the JH-3A was a bust and came up with a more practical, attractive and functional option.  The JH-3A had way too many bugs.   The JH-3A really left a bad experience that makes me hesitate ever buying another JH product.  

This is literally me RIGHT now.

 

[DairyProduce]

What is the release date for these again?

 

[TekeRugburn]

  I think the innerfidelity review is a bit kinder about it than you are and one of those same reviewers now prefers a Noble to his previous fav jh13 at the time of that review. You'd have to pry my jh13s out of my cold dead hands to take them from me but to say Wizard's new company should be discounted due to past VG designs is silly. JHAs freq phase models are only one year old. Those models became the a new target but Heir was pretty competitive until then an Noble may be now with their current upgraded line. 

 
I never said they weren't good; but like I said still skeptical about the Wizard.  Haven't heard anything miraculous soundwise from him but have heard a lot of how pretty they are.
 
I'll never let go of my JH13's.  I'd still put JH13's (old version) against any TOTL ciem from any other company.  I'm not discounting him; just more skeptical than most.  I don't feed into hype that well and definitely not by reviewers with bias.  

 

[goodvibes]

I consider Project86 a very reliable unbiased source. Other reviews will have some bias as I or you might but that doesn't make them wrong. It's known that  Kunlun hates JH and Sorensiin was a big fan of Heir but that doesn't mean it's influencing what they write. If Sorensiin happens to like the same take on sound as the Wizard, that's no more biased than me liking the sig of my JH13s. I don't see the problem. None of it means we or anyone else needs to agree but there is absolutely no basis to discount a Project86 review due to any sort of bias. I think his history speaks for itself. Will be interested for his take on these JHs. 

 

[TekeRugburn]

  I consider Project86 a very reliable unbiased source. Other reviews will have some bias as I or you might but that doesn't make them wrong. It's known that  Kunlun hates JH and Sorensiin was a big fan of Heir but that doesn't mean it's influencing what they write. If Sorensiin happens to like the same take on sound as the Wizard, that's no more biased than me liking the sig of my JH13s. I don't see the problem. None of it means we or anyone else needs to agree but there is absolutely no basis to discount a Project86 review due to any sort of bias. I think his history speaks for itself. Will be interested for his take on these JHs. 

 
Thats the definition of bias.

 

[kryten123]

  Where do people get this idea? They're neither hot nor thin unless your source is.

I found the original JH13 to be a bit too thin and bright for my taste, whereas the JH13 FP seem to have had the brightness warmed up slightly - the harshness smoothed out, so that they are less likely to be shrill or sibilant.

 

[goodvibes]

   
Thats the definition of bias.
 

Nice way to ignore the main point about Project86. The rest was just discussion and if you're including Project68 in your definition than no review can exist without bias so all should be ignored. I made a similar sounding comment to yours in the Cardas thread but went on with the same explanation I gave above to put it in the perspective that it doesn't invalidate a review. It just makes me more interested to see another from Joker or Project86 etc and even that only gives more perspective as opposed to any conclusiveness. Here we have one of those accepted commodities. It doesn't get much better other than more of the same.
 
 Look at the innerfidelity CIEM round up article for instance. While the JH13 was the overall favorite, the site originator preferred the ES5. Is that bias or opinion. Opinion based on sig bias? LOL, it's all a matter of degrees and I think we're all aware.

 

[goodvibes]

  I found the original JH13 to be a bit too thin and bright for my taste, whereas the JH13 FP seem to have had the brightness warmed up slightly - the harshness smoothed out, so that they are less likely to be shrill or sibilant.

and the reason for my statement. Why would anybody be concerned about a product that's been gone for over a year now?

 

[TekeRugburn]

  Nice way to ignore the main point about Project86. The rest was just discussion and if you include Project68 in that than by your definition, no review can exist without bias so all should be ignored. I mad a similar sounding comment to yours in the Cardas thread but went on with the same explanation I gave above to put it in the perspective thatit doesn't invalidate a review. It just makes me more interested to see another from Joker or Project86 etc and even that only gives more perspective as opposed to any conclusiveness. Here we have one of those accepted commodities.
 
 Look at the innerfidelity round up article. While the JH13 was the overall favorite, the site originator preferred the ES5. Is that bias or opinion. Opinion based on sig bias? LOL, it's all a matter of degrees and I think we're all aware.

 
I get what you're saying.  I just rather not pay too much heed who has bias for or against anything.  If some prefers a warmer sound thats fine; but to favor or dislike a product due to who made it is ridiculous.  I get we all have specific signature we like.  I like colder, more neutral, analytical, fast signatures.  Why I went with the jh13 over jh16.  
 
One thing I would like to see with reviews is which reviewers bought the product and which were given discounts or samples.
 
It's not like I don't like the wizard because of Heir products; If Heir was supposedly some of his best work....I just wasn't impressed.  So thats why im skeptical about his new company.  I hope I like the new products he has.  I always WANT to like products.... but it doesnt always happen that way.
 
That being said...I'm skeptical about the Roxannes too.  12 drivers sub-divided into 3 groups of 4; sounds like a doubled up jh13 (3 groups of 2).  

 

[goodvibes]

I'm curious if all 4 drivers per group are identical or even identically loaded. If not, there could be benefit beyond less energy per driver, sort of passive complimentary EQ.
 
I do also get your take on this. The jh13 is already better than the great majority of sources and very tune-able with cable for almost any sig bias. I had heard a demo before and knew my preferences as well. I got mine on Black Friday for under $900 with shipping and my impressions were only $20. How do you beat that kind of value while still having a premier product? Feel the same as you about 13 vs 16.

 

[Sorensiim]

   
I get what you're saying.  I just rather not pay too much heed who has bias for or against anything.  If some prefers a warmer sound thats fine; but to favor or dislike a product due to who made it is ridiculous.  I get we all have specific signature we like.  I like colder, more neutral, analytical, fast signatures.  Why I went with the jh13 over jh16.  

...and you're saying I'm biased in this way? I really like the 8.A and the 4.Ai is a very competent universal iem with a polite signature. The Tzar 350 is stupedusly finicky and can feel like an icepick to your eardrums. It can also shine a spotlight on every single weak spot in your signal chain. This doesn't mean that I worship the ground that Dr. Moulton walks on. But the K10 sure as hell is a fantastic headphone, as I'm sure more reviews will show in time. If you want to keep discussing me (or any imaginative bias), let's take it via PM and keep this thread on track. 

 

[funglouis]

Are they going to come in with an introductory price?

 

[goodvibes]

I believe it was mentioned that they will not but you never know if they'll be included in general promotions.