[inthecity]

@wsilvio - perhaps, and sounds like JH just learned of it otherwise they'd have started changing design back in Jan,,,
@tf1216 - thanks, just confirms that JH is always behind the 8-ball, reactive vs proactive. If they were on top of things, they'd have sent out an email at the start of the day. Instead, they start reading threads hammering away on their communication lack-of-strategy and subsequently react to it (always unapologetically of course,,,)

 

[wsilvio]

As someone who sent in my jh13's, I also worry about the amount of times my shells have been opened!  once to remove the crossovers, once to turn them into jh16's and finally opened again to put the crossovers in again.  Unreal!

 

[scootermafia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxuTyXQHqkI

 

[davidhunternyc]

I have been watching this thread from the very beginning. Over 2000 posts and still no product. What's worse is reading everyones horror stories and it is making my stomach turn. Sorry to you all but I can't take it anymore. I am unsubscribing to this thread.

 

[Germs]

Quote:

That's how I'm reading it.
6 years ago Jerry thought up the concept and applied for patent UNDER UE. They have since pursued the granting of the patent after realising they own the IP for this type of product. It was agreed in January and UE have since been chasing JH to stop infringing their patent.
Would go an awful long way to explaining the odd changes to the product spec, the supposed changes made by the factory and now the complete dumping of the original design concept.
IMO.

Could it be that patent: "Active crossover for use with multi-driver headphones" http://www.google.com/patents?id=-FCYAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=jerry+harvey&hl=en&ei=WHuTTqr8ONS08QPAm6DvBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg
Filled in 2006, issued in January 2011
Here http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=pat&pat=7876920 it seems the assignee (who has the property right to the patent) is Logitech, who bought Ultimate Ears a while ago

 

 

[Maxvla]

One can only hope UE will make good on the patent and create a product using it.

 

[wsilvio]

This sucks!

 

[wuwhere]

A tri-amp custom IEM.

 

[inthecity]

Passive just became the new active!
 
 
Quote:

 
Here is the latest update on the JH3A… 
 
[...]
 
"We appreciate everyone that has held on while this product has been in the development stage and we apologize for the long delay in this reaching you, the early believers in the project. "
==> uhm, I think the early believers were believing in something a bit different...
 
"JH3A amps will start to ship the week after RMAF as soon as Jerry returns to the lab."
==> uhm, another missed expectation (delivery before RMAF), another expectation set... perhaps you also want to make sure everyone wants the different product that you're shipping...
 
Thank you,
 
JHAudio

 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/495320/jh-audio-jh-3a
 
"The JH Audio JH-3A might be one of the most interesting products (in the vein of Head-Fi gear) we'll see launched this year.  It is a system:  an amp and IEM combo.  It's a commitment:  that amp and the IEM need each other.  It's definitely the first of its type to market:  3-way active crossover, phase and frequency optimized using DSP (digital signal processing), with the crossovers being completely in the amp.  The amp's amplifier section consists of three stereo amps (six channels), each of those six channels outputting >100mA per channel.  Each of the three pairs of amps drives the lows, mids, and highs.
 
Did you catch that bit about DSP up there?  Yeah, this is where it gets interesting--really interesting.  On the amp's faceplate are two controls:  digitally-controlled bass output (0 dB to +12 dB), and digitally controlled volume.  The DSP is employed to maintain perfect phase and time correctness.  What makes this more interesting is that the DSP will automatically adapt to maintain perfect phase and time as the user adjusts bass output.  Also, Jerry Harvey claims the DSP allows more extended high frequency response than previously possible, with real extension to 23 kHz.
 
Like I said over a year ago, when JH Audio was beginning its phase of being Jerry's re-launch into the IEM market, Jerry's a pretty humble cat, even though he's supremely confident that he knows his stuff--and "his stuff" is IEMs (and other things, but IEMs the most).  But, as happened when he first talked to me about what would become the JH13 Pro, there's that tinge of bravado in his voice again when he talks about the JH3A system.  When I asked him how much better it is, he said "a lot."  He said he's not inclined to put numbers to such a question, but, if pressed, he'd say it's at least 50% better than anything he's done before, because DSP broke boundaries for him--allowed him to do things he couldn't do in the passive world.  When asked what the biggest benefits were of maintaining perfect phase and time (since that topic comes up repeatedly in any discussion with him about the JH3A), Jerry responded "Imaging and soundstage--and layers.  I'm not kidding, Jude, it'll blow your mind."
 
He's got my attention.
 
Important things to note:  Existing JH13 and JH16 owners will be able to retrofit their pieces to work with the JH-3A system (see the information below).  Keep in mind, however, that once your piece is modified to work with the JH3A system, you're committed to it.  Current JH13 and JH16 models have passive crossovers built into the pieces (for obvious reasons), whereas with the JH-3A system, the crossovers are done in the amp (with DSP), with each of those amps directly driving its respective frequency range (low or mid or high); and so making the pieces JH3A-compatible means giving those amps direct access to those drivers (bypassing or removing the passive crossovers).  Of course, if you order the whole system from the get-go (again, see the information below), then no retrofitting will be necessary.
 
CanJam is coming up on us quickly, I am slammed, and so I don't have the time for much of a writeup right now (not to mention I haven't yet heard it, but will very soon).  It might reasonably be said that JH Audio stole the show last year with the JH13 Pro launch at CanJam 2009 in Los Angeles.  Apparently, they want to do it again, and I think there's a good chance they'll succeed.  I'll be hearing it Friday, and will let you know what I think.  I think a lot of people will be hearing it this coming weekend (at CanJam 2010 in Chicago), and doing the very same.  (Sorry, JH Audio girls, you might actually be the second reason people start heading over to the JH Audio exhibit now. 

)"
 
 

 

[ianmedium]

This stinks quite honestly. let's not forget it is the average forum member who supports this forum by spending their hard earned money on products from Sponsors such as JH and MOT's. Luckily for me i have not spent one red cent on this company and after this most certainly never will and will strongly recommend others not to do so!
I have spent over $3000 on forum sponsors products since being on this forum. Money I would never have spent as I would not have known about the companies. A great many more have spent a great deal more. Seeing JH get away with this makes me not want to spend money with any person selling products on this forum any more!

 

[563]

@inthecity -  it's obvious you really have it in for JHA - why do you insist on pounding them with just about every post on this thread - have you even ordered the JH-3A?  this is long past constructive criticism - you really seem to be hoping they'll crash and burn.  hey, i'm no fan of JHA myself; i think the company has major pr problems, and acts rather smugly - but it's time you cut them slack, please!

 

[563]

i wonder whether the new version will work with the JH-13s now?

 

[Concept357]

I wasn't able to read through the thread and honestly don't feel like it ;p, so can someone tell me where all this "horror" and rage is coming from???

 

[sling5s]

Confusing turn of events:
 
1. Do the few who have the "active crossovers JH-3A" get to choose to keep them or turn them in for the passive JH-3A?
2. Are the new JH-3A price going to reflect the change?  I would think it should be less with passive crossovers.
3. Also I would have thought the update would have been an apology to all the "pre-orders" with an explanation and lastly an option for a refund considering it's entirely a different JH-3A than promised.
4. What I would like to know is how this is going to affect the sound.  Isn't that what's all about? The sound has not been addressed at all in the update.  
5. Furthermore, the update is so vague about the patent and worse makes it sound like they have made the changes to reflect the demands of us customers.
6. Finally, I just don't understand how JHA can provide an update without offering some options to the customers (and one of the options being a refund). 
 
Could the head fi moderator step in and provide some "help"? 

 

[thread]

I've been trying to get some answers on all this. Here's the dialog I've had with Jerry today. I'm having a tough time imagining this isn't a step backwards (if only a small one), but Jerry sure seems to think it's not.

My summary is that all 3 amps output full range signal, which is then narrowed for the specific bands in the passive crossover. This means that we no longer get the benefit of each amp driving a narrow band of the audio spectrum, but we do get the time/phase correctness.

I hope sharing this exchange helps our understanding of the state of things.




Jerry,

Can you clear up this point for me?

Your email states, "The 3A still has 3 internal amps (low, mid and high) driving the passive crossover components in the earpiece."

If you have a passive crossover before the drivers, doesn't that mean the driver clusters are no longer being driver discretely, directly from their individual amps?

Am I correct in surmising that this means a bit of a downgrade in design from what we've been expecting? I think this point deserves a bit of clarification.

Thanks so much for your time!

Adam





The passive low components have one amp driving them, the passive mid has one amp driving it and the passive high has one amp driving it. The crossover points and shapes are the same just that the process is inverted. The individual amps allow me to eq and time align each passive component. The result is exactly the same the xover is just post amp not pre amp.

The components are still driven discretely with their own amp.

> Am I correct in surmising that this means a bit of a downgrade in design from what we've been expecting? I think this point deserves a bit of clarification.

The audio signature and performance is the same with the benefit of being able to use the IEM with an adaptor that basically connects the low/mid and high passive components to complete the circuit.

I still have the control to tune the earpiece to any response and control the crossover point time and phase.

> Thanks so much for your time!

> Adam






Thanks so much for the quick and thoughtful reply. Just a couple things:

1. Isn't this technically no longer an active crossover design? As I understand it, having an "active crossover" implies that the crossover is happening *before* the amping step. This is only semantics, but I am still curious.

2. A passive crossover takes an input and splits it. It sounds like you are combining the 3 signals as you enter the passive crossover, then allowing it to split the signal again 3 ways. Is this right? There must be a small performance hit, right? ..Just small enough that it shouldn't bother anyone?

3. Will we be able to charge the unit via USB while feeding it a coax signal?

Thanks again, Jerry.

--
Adam





> Thanks so much for the quick and thoughtful reply. Just a couple things:

> 1. Isn't this technically no longer an active crossover design? As I understand it, having an "active crossover" implies that the crossover is happening *before* the amping step. This is only semantics, but I am still curious.

True technically this is not a active crossover. We got the same results maybe even better.

> 2. A passive crossover takes an input and splits it. It sounds like you are combining the 3 signals as you enter the passive crossover, then allowing it to split the signal again 3 ways. Is this right? There must be a small performance hit, right? ..Just small enough that it shouldn't bother anyone?

No the actual wiring has the amp driving the passive crossover for each component. The signals never combine. The amps are each full range until the hit the passive component. These amps have EQ and time but no high pass or low pass. The high pass and the low pass are in the earpiece.
I can't hear a performance hit.

> 3. Will we be able to charge the unit via USB while feeding it a coax signal?

I'm sorry, no on this one.