[rkw]

what piqued my interest in the cyan is that it is the only all-in-one dac/headphone amp that i am aware of employing ladder dac technology

Also Soekris dac1541.
https://www.google.com/search?q=soekris+dac1541

 

[up late]

thanks for that

 

[gr8soundz]

i find it hard to comprehend why any audio engineer who is designing and manufacturing audio equipment for the consumer market, would think it is a good idea to produce an integrated dac/headphone amp that only a computer nerd would feel comfortable using.

You don't have to upsample (i.e. transcode) to DSD. Some do/did it for better perceived sound quality (don't have the Cyan but I used to do DSD512 with the iDSD Micro). Assuming you get a PCM Cyan, standard audio over USB, digital, or optical should work like most other DACs.

Also Soekris dac1541.
https://www.google.com/search?q=soekris+dac1541

I have the single-ended dac1101. Great ladder DAC but lacks the Holo's NOS mode, no i2s input, and only does DSD256.

 

[rkw]

well you're certainly making it sound more complicated than i would expect it to be for my purposes.

Indeed, it was very strange reply. The product is a plug-and-play, all-in-one DAC+amp designed for convenience and value. If you don't intend to use it in that way, then you shouldn't be considering combo units.

I have the single-ended dac1101. Great ladder DAC but lacks the Holo's NOS mode, no i2s input, and only does DSD256.

The dac1541 doesn't come with NOS as one of its pre-loaded filters, but it is possible to install one. I would imagine that it's possible with the dac1101 as well. As for the other features, what other all-in-one DAC+amp combo units would you suggest?

 

[up late]

Indeed, it was very strange reply. The product is a plug-and-play, all-in-one DAC+amp designed for convenience and value. If you don't intend to use it in that way, then you shouldn't be considering combo units.

yes, more appropriate for the pc audio forum than here i would have thought, and as others have already pointed out

You don't have to upsample (i.e. transcode) to DSD. Some do/did it for better perceived sound quality (don't have the Cyan but I used to do DSD512 with the iDSD Micro). Assuming you get a PCM Cyan, standard audio over USB, digital, or optical should work like most other DACs.

yes, it would be the pcm cyan

 

[llamaluv]

Any discussion of a NOS DAC is naturally going to include considerations of how to get the most out of it via PC-based oversampling.

I don't have a problem with that.

 

[gr8soundz]

The dac1541 doesn't come with NOS as one of its pre-loaded filters, but it is possible to install one. I would imagine that it's possible with the dac1101 as well. As for the other features, what other all-in-one DAC+amp combo units would you suggest?

I did some research before reviewing the dac1101 and it's my understanding that Soekris hardware is designed to upsample all inputs to above 300kHz. AFAIK, user created NOS filters only provide a more 'NOS-like' sound which is not the same as Holo's true NOS mode.

Also, uploading new filters to the Soekris requires a serial connection which must be user soldered to the board. I can't speak for others but the process is not easy and I have no plans to void my dac1101's 3-year warranty.

Besides Holo Audio and Soekris, the only other ladder DAC I'm aware of with a headphone jack is the Audio-gd R2R 11.

I will also say to those who believe that the PC portion of this thread seems off topic: Because of how the Cyan is being offered (PCM only or DSD only; you can get both but I doubt anyone will frequently take their Cyan apart to remove and reinstall the DSD module), if someone orders the DSD version they may have to upsample everything to DSD in order to get sound from it. Since almost no manufacturers (other than say iFi-Audio) describe how to do this in realtime, the info posted here may be of great benefit. If their music is already 100.0% DSD files then problem solved but I'm not aware of anyone with such a collection. I haven't tried HQPlayer yet but thankfully I had a recent i7 CPU to handle the DSD512 workload in Foobar (which still hit up to 40% usage). IMO, it'd be far worse to separate the PC portion and NOT give new users a heads up to check their planned hardware/software setups than to let them find out the hard way after spending four figures on a new (possibly DSD only) DAC.

 

[WNBC]

Based on my discussions with a vendor, if you feed PCM to the Cyan DSD-only version then you will get sound. There is a conversion that takes place within the DAC. However, my understanding is that this will not sound as good as feeding it DSD files. There is a technical reason why that I'd have to dig up in my emails.

Some discussion of how to get the best sound out of the DAC is warranted or at the very least tolerable. Might be a slight tangent but there are a lot of people who are not computer and/or computer audio savvy. I guess it depends on the crowd. For me, I rarely go over to the computer audio thread, but maybe I should. Having some info in the thread makes it more convenient. In the Holo Spring thread, computer audio does get talked about in regards to sound quality. Appears it bothers some people and other people don't mind, especially in this thread where there is really not a lot of people using the Cyan. We've all witnessed bigger tangents in most threads

My main goal was a unit that sounded subjectively 90% as good as Spring DAC. A head amp section would be a bonus. I had a Spring DAC lvl 3 in the past, but wasn't looking to spend that kind of money again. The vendor I trust really praised the Cyan sound quality as that of approaching Spring, but of course the Spring is the....Spring. I was looking to purchase the Cyan PCM version, but turned out there was a problem with manufacturing that they are currently addressing. I had then had the option of purchasing Cyan DSD or Spring Lvl. I opted for the Spring lvl 1.

I can build my own computer, but I actually didn't know much about upsampling other than some programs like HQ/JRiver/Roon offered it and others did not like Amarra 4, which I've owned for a while. I really do enjoy the Level 1 Spring. No turning back. However, to consider saving a little more money I would have needed more knowledge about how easy it is upsample to Cyan DSD. The main negative of Cyan DSD for me would have been that I would not have been able to occasionally use a CD transport and achieve the best sound possible out of the DSD. I am still subscribed to this thread because I would like to hear some opinions about the DAC I almost purchased.

 

[up late]

hmm. i think a less exotic dac/amp option might be best for me.

 

[rkw]

hmm. i think a less exotic dac/amp option might be best for me.

The PCM Cyan is not exotic at all — digital source in, headphone out. This thread has turned into a strange discussion of how to squeeze the most high-end performance out of it. It is a mid-level product designed for convenience and budget. If you are looking for a plug-and-play ladder DAC+amp, PCM Cyan is a valid candidate.

One more ladder DAC+amp I forgot about: Metrum Acoustics Amethyst

 

[up late]

that was also my impression of the cyan. i visited this thread to find out about user experiences with it, impressions of its sound signature (if one is apparent), and hopefully comparisons with other dacs and dac/amp combos.

not to worry. i can always come back later after more owners have posted here. there doesn't appear to be many currently.

 

[Level5]

Sorry for the late impression guys but I took a break from head fi for a bit.

I've had the Cyan PCM for about 2 months now and owned/ sold the 1541. I also have the RME ADI-2 DAC but I'll need more time to evaluate it. I will say the RME is probably my fav!

1541- Dry, sterile, analytic, narrow stage but had very good resolution. Regarding background noise with tube amps, the Holo Cyan beats it. I could still hear some noise/hiss depending on the volume pot. Built in amp is is average and a limiting factor of the dac, so a discreet amp is highly recommended.
vs
Holo Cyan PCM - Very musical, 3d holographic *what makes it special*, laid back *slightly warm* and dynamic. Good resolution but I have to give it to the 1541. It pairs well with tube amps *blackest background dac I've owned", so if you have some noise issues (hum or hiss) with tube amps then this DAC will eliminate it. The usb input is USB 3.0, unlike the other dacs. Built in amp is very good, better than 1541, but I kinda of prefer using a discreet amp either way because I want a bit more leeway on the volume pot.

I've had the Cyan for a week or so before getting the 1541 and within the first few mins I already knew it wasn't for me so it didnt stay for too long. I missed or got used to the 3d holographic of the Cyan and how it pairs very well with narrow headphones (Clear, Utopia, LCD2c).

Amazing dac and I'm tempted to try out the Spring Lvl 2 in the future just to compare.

 

[Levanter]

Sorry for the late impression guys but I took a break from head fi for a bit.

I've had the Cyan PCM for about 2 months now and owned/ sold the 1541. I also have the RME ADI-2 DAC but I'll need more time to evaluate it. I will say the RME is probably my fav!

1541- Dry, sterile, analytic, narrow stage but had very good resolution. Regarding background noise with tube amps, the Holo Cyan beats it. I could still hear some noise/hiss depending on the volume pot. Built in amp is is average and a limiting factor of the dac, so a discreet amp is highly recommended.
vs
Holo Cyan PCM - Very musical, 3d holographic *what makes it special*, laid back *slightly warm* and dynamic. Good resolution but I have to give it to the 1541. It pairs well with tube amps *blackest background dac I've owned", so if you have some noise issues (hum or hiss) with tube amps then this DAC will eliminate it. The usb input is USB 3.0, unlike the other dacs. Built in amp is very good, better than 1541, but I kinda of prefer using a discreet amp either way because I want a bit more leeway on the volume pot.

I've had the Cyan for a week or so before getting the 1541 and within the first few mins I already knew it wasn't for me so it didnt stay for too long. I missed or got used to the 3d holographic of the Cyan and how it pairs very well with narrow headphones (Clear, Utopia, LCD2c).

Amazing dac and I'm tempted to try out the Spring Lvl 2 in the future just to compare.

The 3 DAC/amps I’ve been interested in. Especially the RME ADI-2 and Cyan. How do both compare?
And do you have HD800S & 650 for pairing as well?

 

[Level5]

The 3 DAC/amps I’ve been interested in. Especially the RME ADI-2 and Cyan. How do both compare?
And do you have HD800S & 650 for pairing as well?

Will have to wait a bit since my RME ADI-2 PRO is defective (analog output line noise) and had to return it. I'm currently awaiting the RME ADI-2 DAC ver. and I should get it in a week or so since its out of stock.

I opted for the DAC ver this time because I realized after playing with the PRO a few days that I'm not really going to be using the PRO features at all that much and shaving off $1000 is nice.

Sorry I no longer have the HD800 nor HD650 and sold the HD800 for the Utopia.

I'll just say that if I were to keep only one dac, then it would have to be the RME ADI-2.
Its the only DAC that was able to push the Utopia's technicalities!

 

[up late]

thanks for your impressions. could you elaborate on how the cyan pairs well with the utopia?