[jbw157]

Back in the day I considered myself an audiophile with McIntosh amplification, big Klipsch speakers and 10 gage speaker cables. With marriage and age I have gotten away from all of that and have satisfied myself with a 5G Apple iPod and Shure E2C earbuds.

The question is this: Will I get better sound from my iPod (the audiophile coming out in me again) if I use a headphone amp? With that being said, it seems to me that if I plug an amp into the earphone plug that I won't improve the sound, I will only make it louder.

Can someone tell me how amps will improve the sound. For reference, I listen to mainly classic jazz with mp3s at a bitrate of 192 or better.

 

[takezo]

only you can truly answer that timeless question, " will it improve the sound?"
everyone has different sensitivity to sound perception and precept to what certain tone should be. my suggestion is to buy a reputable portable amp and audition it for a month. if you're unimpressed, then sell it here on head-fi for slightly less or on an auction site. good luck!

i'd recommend the following portable amps for portability, sound quality
and resale value:

1) xin's supermicro IV ($190) great tube-like sound but long wait (3 mo.)
2) ray samuels tomahawk (280) great dynamics and built to last. fast shipping.

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbw157 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can someone tell me how amps will improve the sound.

I sure would love to hear a good explanation on this as well!

 

[elnino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by takezo /img/forum/go_quote.gif only you can truly answer that timeless question, " will it improve the sound?" everyone has different sensitivity to sound perception and precept to what certain tone should be. my suggestion is to buy a reputable portable amp and audition it for a month. if you're unimpressed, then sell it here on head-fi for slightly less or on an auction site. good luck! i'd recommend the following portable amps for portability, sound quality and resale value: 1) xin's supermicro IV ($190) great tube-like sound but long wait (3 mo.) 2) ray samuels tomahawk (280) great dynamics and built to last. fast shipping.

Selling here might be easier said than done for jbw157 as he only has 3 posts:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=238740

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjisme /img/forum/go_quote.gif I sure would love to hear a good explanation on this as well!

from an ipod with earbuds, the improvements may be minimal.

 

[GAD]

I didn't start with an amp to improve the sound - I bought an amp to drive my high-impedance cans. To me, that's first and foremost the reason for an amp.

Sound improvement in portable amps are usually pretty subtle. Consider using a line-out doc connector on the ipod for better sound with an amp.

Be warned, you're starting on a slippery (expensive) slope. Look at my sig. I started with one amp and one set of headphones.

GAD

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't start with an amp to improve the sound - I bought an amp to drive my high-impedance cans. To me, that's first and foremost the reason for an amp.

Yes, that makes sense to me. So does the case where you have no amp (ex. iMod).

I assume another reason apart from those is that it is believed that the internal amp of the DAP does a poorer job than an external amp. The only other reason I have heard is that the chosen external amp "colors" the sound in some desirable way. Effectively, this is a distortion of the signal, but sounds good and effectively becomes a form of permanent EQ.

 

[cotdt]

the job of an amp is not only to provide gain (volume), but also to provide an interface between the source and the driver (headphones). thus, the amp just lower the output impedance so that the driver is better-controlled. with a good amp, your source will have an iron death grip on your headphone drivers. the control will be near absolute, so you'll definately hear a difference especially with the bass.

 

[thebob]

I believe that the line out on an iPod connector has a more direct path from the DAC. Because of size limitatons the built in amp is puny and the path to the headphone jack has some fine traces and skimpy ribbon cables that degrade quality.

There are many line out connectors on sale. I just bought one from eBay. I just wish there was a pass through type solution so I didn't need to unplug it for charging/syncing.

 

[fkclo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbw157 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back in the day I considered myself an audiophile with McIntosh amplification, big Klipsch speakers and 10 gage speaker cables. With marriage and age I have gotten away from all of that and have satisfied myself with a 5G Apple iPod and Shure E2C earbuds. The question is this: Will I get better sound from my iPod (the audiophile coming out in me again) if I use a headphone amp? With that being said, it seems to me that if I plug an amp into the earphone plug that I won't improve the sound, I will only make it louder. Can someone tell me how amps will improve the sound. For reference, I listen to mainly classic jazz with mp3s at a bitrate of 192 or better.

Honestly, you may not be able to tap much from an iPod storing 192 kbps data. This is easily your bottle neck in the whole sonic chain.

But the simple answer is: Yes, you can get great sound out from an iPod, but it will involve a little more than just an amp. You may need a closer look at the whole audio chain.

My suggestions: use lossless or at least 320kbps AAC. Then go for the iLink (http://www.msbtech.com/products/iLink.php) or the iMod (by Red Wine Audio) path. I believe the iLink is the ultimate audiophile path for iPod users. Downstream of the iLink get a decent DAC - suggest Benchmark DAC1, Lavry DA10, or Stello DA100, or a modified Zhaolu D2x, then a good amp will deliver the sonic revelation.

As the line out of the iPod has a lower voltage (~ < 1.0V) than standard analogue out from other components (~2.0V) so amplication is a necessity if you want to use any headphones above 30ohms impedance. The power circuit and the battery inside the iPod will not be sufficient to produce enough current to feed most low impedance phones (except some IEMs).

When you speak of "improving the sound", there can be so many interpretations. Do you mean to extract the last drop of minute details through a highly detailed and resolving components ? or do you mean to add warmth and initimacy ? Do you want skewed sonic spectrum, or want to stretch the head-stage to something unrealistically wide ? Different people have their own taste of "improved sound", and that is why we have some many amp and headphone choices, plus interconnects.

Ultimately I think only you can tell if the sound is "good enough". I am a strong supporter of "exploration" different set up and combinations, and find this in itself a journey to understand music better. I don't really think there is a standard, one-step to gold solution.

Just my 2 cents.

F. Lo

 

[Sordel]

My advice to OP is to be honest with yourself about what you want. I kidded myself that I wanted an improved iPod sound, but my headphone rig (which is pretty modest) is way better than that, so I usually feed it with a CD source. No question that I get an improvement on the iPod source, but even a portable headphone rig is heavy and inconvenient compared with the basic iPod, and in any sort of noisy environment you won't get the benefit. I only use my iPod with the Micro Amp at home, and if I didn't happen to own almost all the CDs that I have on my iPod I'd probably be bewailing a disappointing purchase.

That said, if you have a music collection on any lossless medium, the combined purchase of decent headphones and an amp will definitely unlock some of the investment in that collection.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't start with an amp to improve the sound - I bought an amp to drive my high-impedance cans. To me, that's first and foremost the reason for an amp. . . . GAD

[size=large]x2![/size]

 

[tbonner1]

The best amp is no amp. I would prefer to not have an external amp and interconnect to drive my headphones.

If you do need one to improve the sound of your DAP, the next best thing is to run the amp through the line out so you are not coloring the sound through two amplifiers.

The Apple 5G has reasonable sound out of the built in amp if you mate it with high efficiency IEM's. The E2's have moderate efficiency at 105DB and the sound quality has been improved upon since this model was released.

One idea is to consider a different earphone with 109-119db efficiency so you would not need an external amp.

 

[Moocher]

To thebob: "I just wish there was a pass through type solution so I didn't need to unplug it for charging/syncing."

See:

http://www.sendstation.com/us/produc...neout-usb.html

Mooch

 

[Moocher]

To OP:

I have compared the line out with amp, headphone out with amp, and headphone out without amp using a Pocket 2 Amp and AT-ES7s. To me, there is a big difference between the first and the latter two and I much prefer the line out with an amp, which is what I use around the house when I'm not in front of my computer.

I don't understand all the electrical stuff, but do understand that I'm bypassing the internal amp in my iPod and substituting the external amp.

Mooch