New headphone guy needs Ety advice

[BB.]

After receiving a free RioVolt and greatly enjoying it, I realized I could really use some better headphones than the stock ones that came with it which are harsh, tinny, overly bright, and have no bass-- any extended listening gave me a headache.

So I went around to the local stores to listen to headphones. The selection was not very good. We have all the big chains in my town (Circuit City, Good Guys, & Best Buy) but ever since these stores moved in a few years ago, the local hi-fi shops went out of business. Sigh.

Here are some of the 'phones I was able to hear. In trying to describe each, I used my home speakers (Paradigm Studio Monitors) as my reference point since I am very familar with them and I believe they sound very good. None of the phones I auditioned came anywhere close to my home speakers:

Sony MDR-V600
Somewhat bright highs leading to a pseudo-detailed sound, but extremely boomy and loose bass. It seems like no matter what music I played on these things I heard a constant bass boom/rumble. The sound reminds me of a slightly more refined version of a set of Fisher rack system speakers!

Sony MDR-V500
Even though this headphone sounded slightly harsher and less refined than the V600, I actually prefered it over it's bigger brother. Probably because the bass wasn't so wild on it. Better to have no bass, than have it bad I guess. Still, it sounds bad too.

Sennhieser HD490
This was the best set of phones I heard at the store. Very laid back highs that are easy on the ears-- I think I could listen to this a long time without fatigue. Still it sounded kind of dull and lifeless. And somehow it didn't seem very smooth-- it seemed kind of colored and unnatural sounding. Also, efficency is not that good on these-- I had to turn my RioVolt to max in order to get a reasonable volume level out of them. These are *very* comfortable phones though.

Sennhieser HD500
Most expensive phones in the store. Very dead and lifeless sounding-- even more so than the 490's. Though I have to hand it to Sennheiser for comfort and styling, they have everyone else beat in these areas.

Anyway, I was pretty dissapointed with what I had found. Surely I could get portable sound equivalent to my Paradigm's at a reasonable price. So I went on the Internet and found this forum, and after much reading decided the Etymotic EP-4P's were the best match for me.

I just received them today and have already spent about 4 hours listening to them. My inital impression is that these are amazing headphones! They are extemely neutral and have deep, controlled bass. The highs are ever so slightly resessed, but this is good as it helps tame the bright sound of the RioVolt and many rock recordings.

One problem I'm having though is how to best position the Ety's in my ears. Prior to buying these I read lots of messages on here cautioning not to insert them in too far, yet I've found I have to push them in very deep in order to get a good seal. Once that happens, the bass sounds incredibly deep and powerful, yet controlled-- I cannot understand why some think the bass on these is weak.

Maybe my definition of inserting deep and other's defintion of deep is different: In order to get a good seal using the rubber tips I insert the plugs up to the point where not much pressure is required. Then it's like I come up against something. From that point onward it requires some amount of pushing/pressure in order to get them to go in farther. At this point, it starts to hurt mildly. If I go in just a hair farther from where the pain starts, then I get a good seal and the bass sounds incredable. After 15 minutes or so, the pain largely goes away and I'm in audio nirvana!

However, sometimes after I've been listening for a while the bass will become week again and I notice I can easily hear other sounds in the room. My seal has broken! Am I not putting the pugs far enough into my ear for the seal to stay put?

Anyway, other than the problem of consistantly getting and keeping a good seal, these ER-4P's are everything I thought they'd be. They provide sound very comparble to my Paradigm's at home. They probably even exceed the Paradigm's in terms of neutrality and smoothness. However, they do not quite match the Paradigm's in terms of dynamics. I'm not sure if this has to do with the impact of bass I feel in the room with the Paradigm's that missing on Etys or perhaps it's the cheap electronics in the RioVolt? It's not that the dynamics on the Ety's are poor, it's just that the dynamics on the Paradigm Studio Monitors sound more enjoyable for some reason.

If anyone can provide any insight into my problems (slight as they may be), that would be great. I want to add that I am very impressed with the good nature and helpfulness of everyone on this board. I see many of the participants here are quite young (some don't appear to even have a driver's license yet!). I know I wasn't nearly as mature at that age myself and I'm 32 now.

It's kind of funny how I got a free RioVolt and now it looks like I'm on my way to becoming a headphone guy. We'll see.

 

[Tim D]

You just got em! It should only get better with experience with handling and inserting them.

There isn't too much that hasn't been said that will help you...just go back and re-read the numerous Ety insertion threads.

Some people can't even manage to get a good seal so feel lucky.

BTW all the headphones you've auditioned before are also headphones that are available to be purchased locally by me...and they are all quite high on the suck/price ratio. One day I will figure out why the most accessible phones are the most horrid.

 

[BB.]

One other comment about the Ety's: These things sound totally different with each recording I listen too! Some recordings sound amazing, others sound so-so. Too me that is the mark of a good speaker-- i.e. it's so neutral that the sound of the recording shines through rather than the speaker's coloration of it.

In constrast, everything played on the stock headphones sounded about the same.I'm curious why Stereophile doesn't have the Ety's on their recommended components list, yet the Grado's are on there. The Ety's came with a colored advertisement that quotes Stereophile. Did anyone here read Stereophile's review of these phones?

 

[Tim D]

http://www.beststuff.com/article.php3?story_id=1358

Here's a more consumer-oriented review by an ex-stereophile writer.

Ety's are class B or B+. Pretty good since, ummmm, stereophile hasn't really shown themselves to be exactly on top of headphone reviews. Surprising given that some couldn't even figure out how to put on AKG1000's.

Anyhow it is very personal when it comes to Etymotics...as you can hear for yourself, fit means everything...and the fit won't be the same for everyone.

 

[BB.]

I didn't know Corey Greenberg was on the TODAY show?! That's pretty wierd since I remember him from his old Stereophile days. Though does he really think the average consumer would enjoy Ety's? They may sound great, but they take more effort and potential discomfort (at least upfont) than the average consumer is willing to deal with. I'm pretty sure if I loaned my Ety's a set of Sony V600's to my friends, all of them would prefer the V600-- much less hassle and hey, the sound sizzles and booms!

I too am suprised that the superstores don't carry better phones. For example, why are both the Sennhieser 490 and 500 widely availble, but the supposedly superior 495 is not? Since all the stores carry roughly the same models, I would assume the manufacturers (in this case, Sennhieser) actually promote those as the prefered models.

Do they actually make more money on these crappier models? Or do they feel these models more closely represent what the customers at these stores want?

 

[MacDEF]

To address your "fit" problems, I'm one of the people who can never get a good and/or comfortable fit with the white tips. With the foam tips I get a great seal every time.

 

[Wes]

OK, BB. Welcome to the Ety sound. It's fortunate indeed that you can get a seal, but it puzzles me a bit that you can't maintain it. Because you find the seal spontaneously unfastening, it sounds to me as if the Ety's are not set deep enough rather than too deep, although the fact that you insert them to the point of resistance and pain suggests the opposite.

So, let me describe my way of fitting for a seal and maybe comparing it with yours will help somehow.

I follow the classical procedure of drawing back and slightly up on my outer ear with the hand not holding the Ety for insertion. The purpose is to stretch open the entry to the ear canal. I push the 'phone in to the point of meeting boney resistance--but not to the point of even a suggestion of pain. Then I release the outer ear. This lets the distended ear canal return to its normal shape and size and, in doing so, clamps tight around the Ety. I can feel a slight suction or negative pressure within my ear as this happens. If, as sometimes I do to check my left ear (where the fit seems less secure), I pull or twist on the Ety, then I can definitely feel that pressure inside my ear go negative to positive as I tug the Ety out or push it in a little. My inner ear, I take it, is now "coupled" to the Ety.

The twist with a slight push and pull helps with my more difficult left ear to confirm that the seal is there. The immediate feel of my ear clamping around the Ety is not as confidence-inspiring in my left ear as in my right one.

I have never had a seal release after I've obtained it.

I hope that somehow this detail will help you find the key to a stable seal.

 

[duetta]

The problem with reviewers in virtually every field is that you have to first evaluate their taste before paying any mind whatsoever to their comments.

Corey Greenberg is the person who gave Kimber PBJ the rave review in Stereophile, and IMHO PBJ is about the brightest sounding audio interconnect you can find. As someone on Audioreview.com put it, they sound like chalk on a blackboard if you have a revealing, objective audio rig. My guess is that Corey's high frequency hearing isn't all there (after probably listening to music at high volumes for too long), and he simply can't hear it. I never found his reviews even vaguely consistent with what I was hearing.

Matt C

 

[Mallow005]

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I don't see how people can get the perfect fit with the etys so fast. Just before reading this post I found an even better way to put my etys in (it was a combination of the other two ways I thought I "discovered" the best way to put them in). This is week 4 with them.. mmmm.

 

[MirandaX]

Quote:

Originally posted by BB. However, sometimes after I've been listening for a while the bass will become week again and I notice I can easily hear other sounds in the room. My seal has broken!

You might want to try draping the cords over the top of your ears. This seems to work well; it prevents gravity from pulling the Etys out over time. (It also helps to control the microphonic cable noise.)

Quote:

It's not that the dynamics on the Ety's are poor, it's just that the dynamics on the Paradigm Studio Monitors sound more enjoyable for some reason.

This might not be quite what you're looking for, but I've found that the Etys benefit tremendously from a tube amp. The sound is quite literally magical.