New headphone : a lot of questions

[fille]

hello everybody, i'm new here, but i'm an audiophile for long, at least theoreticly (i'm reading a lot, building or buying requires money). I have bought already a few headphones, but none of them are good enough. i have bought an akg k401 something like ten years ago: but the sound was much to fluffy( i don't know how to say: to much bass, nothing was pinpointed) after that i gave the headphone to my brother and bought myself an AKG k500 (for 20 euro at ebay, haha) it sounds better, but still it isn't what i'm looking for; okee, i admit: my frontend isn't that: an NAD amp.

What i'm gonna build is an external dac, with tubes in the end stage as a buffer. and then an dedicated amp probably. But i want some advice on what to buy. I like very much STAX, i'm in love with true exact pinpointing music. but then again; stax isn't cheap, it's a bit more fragile; sennheiser hd-650 comes to mind: maybe, but i never really liked sennheiser: they sounded a bit to lay back, not defined enough(at least that's what i remember, but the 650 model is very good they say); akg 701: that's something which i really like, akg made good things (even the 401 & 500 are not good ENOUGH ANY MORE: the are much better than any of my friends ever heard).
AKG k 1000: everybody is very enthousiast about it. but the comfort ? i heard that they are quite heavy and press hard on the head; and the fragility ? An grado: i never have heard them, so...

let's summarize :

what would i use as front end
an external dac, and dedicated amp, i would upgrade the cable of the headphones if necesarry, but DIY not cardas: cardas is good but expensive. (maybe if i find them cheap). I would balance the headphone

what comes in mind as headphone
AKG k 701
AKG k 1000
senheiser hd 650
grado ???
STAX sr-303

What and how will i use them
i'm a student: that's important to know: i wear headphones a lot so i won't disturb anyone. SO comfort is rather a big issue; also i have them on if i'm working, and typing, so i need headphones which doesn't make a lot of sound every time i move my head. i listen to all kind of music; bass is important but also the highs, at this moment my speaker system is an full range coral flat bass reflex cabinet which is very spatial. So spatiallity is also an issue.
well you know: aren't we all looking for the same thing ? closing your eyes and feel like you're in front of the musicians ? So what do you think people.

what i would chose
i'm thinking about the stax but i'm afraid they are a bit fragile, i have never broken an akg k500 of k400 but they are extremely flexibel. And also the dust, they have to be taken care of.
if i don't take an stax i maybe go for an akg 701, i like very much the sound and it's comfortly, but since the sen 650 is cheaper and sounds almost the same, i might do that.

anyway don't let you guide yourself by my chose: if you know something which could be relevant, please let me know.

thanx everybody
greetings

 

[digitalD]

If you're chosing headphones so that you don't disturb those around you, I don't think those are very good choices because I believe they're all open back headphones and sound does leak out quite a bit. If someone is next to you, they'll hear it. If you live by yourself, but with neighbors sharing a wall, that's another story. Is that the case?

 

[jagorev]

The 701 sounds about right.

 

[2426]

Wait...you said that you wear headphones so you won't disturb anyone, yet you named all open headphones in your post..

. Are you looking for something with isolation? Because the headphones you named will leak quite a bit. If you don't care, then they all seem like good choices. What kind of music do you listen to?

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2426 Wait...you said that you wear headphones so you won't disturb anyone, yet you named all open headphones in your post.. . Are you looking for something with isolation? Because the headphones you named will leak quite a bit. If you don't care, then they all seem like good choices. What kind of music do you listen to?

I think the fact that he lives in college might mean that he doesn't want to disturb his dorm neighbors. Open headphones might bother people in the same room, but, unlike speakers, I've never heard them go through the wall at reasonable volumes.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagorev Open headphones might bother people in the same room, but, unlike speakers, I've never heard them go through the wall at reasonable volumes.

Now that would be a serious issue of that happened. Nevertheless, I think open headphones are the way forward if spacial sound is what you want. Take a look at the DT880, the AKG K701 and the HD650. I've only heard and own the latter two so I shall only comment on them.

Secondly, may I extend my welcome to the OP! You have quite a quest in front of you and I'm sincerely "sorry for your wallet!"

The HD650 is much darker than the K701. I wouldn't say the soundstage of the HD650 is that much vaster than the K701, although, the K701 is more forward (ie performers sound closer to you than). If you don't like dark sound (ie heavy lower midrange or smearing of upper bass into lower midrange), then the HD650 is definitely not for you.

I have discovered that the "darkness" of a recording also matters. For example, I have a classical recording called "Live at Carnegie Hall". The two pianists, Kissin and Levine, play very beautifully. On my HD650, it is almost unbearably dark, ie the leading edges of the notes are unbelievably mushy and undefined. On my K701 and ER4S, the leading edges are much better defined. Despite the HD650 being more spacial, I think I will take clarity over a vast soundstage. I think the recording itself is rather dark, which really makes the HD650 sound darker than it really is.

However, Norah Jone's "Come Away With Me" is not as dark a recording as the Kissin and Levine album. Hence, I actually prefer the HD650 to the K701 because I the darkness of the HD650 is then rather enjoyable. The relatively thick upper bass of the HD650 fortifies the accompaniment and IMO, the HD650 is also sweeter in the midrange. For this recording, the soundstage is not a big issue. You will notice that Norah Jone's voice is very forward in this recording. As long as the headphones are capable of reproducing a convincing instrument/performer separation, then it's all good. This is something both headphones are capable of doing.

I would recommend that you get both. Then grab a pair of Grados as well to fill in your rock/guitar gap. I don't believe one can be fully satisfied by any combination of headphones, only more satisfied. I say, "the more the merrier!"

 

[rincewind]

I posted a longish reply for u but got database errors on submission and I'm too lazy to retype it all

In summary: I have the Senn HD650. I like them. But you need a DAC and amp to get the most out of them. They get "tighter" in the bass with burn-in, which may be a counter to what ppl think is the Senn Veil.

Oh, and don't judge all Senns/Grados/whatever brand headphones based on one model. Some are completely different, eg Senn HD590 (IMO).

And u need to tell us what type of music u like the most, and what u listen to the rest of the time.

 

[franzdom]

Looking at the 650 & 701 I have actually found the 701 to be available cheaper. It's a convoluted search but try headphone.com for samples on pricing, around 299 for the K701 & 349 for the HD650 though the 650 can be had for nearer 300 elsewhere as well.

 

[The_Duke_Of_Eli]

A900s or 280s would fit the bill. Any other senn or any grado is open.

 

[sxr71]

Sometimes I think IEMs are the way to go if not disturbing anyone is a priority. Also it really helps if you plan to listen in a noisy environment. I have to turn off anything that makes noise in the room including desktop computers. Even the slightest noise gets through and reduces the effective S/N ratio.

 

[fille]

thanx guys, for the numerous reply.

with not disturbing others: i mean not disturbing others in another room, so open headphones isn't a problem. i mean that's the only way to go for me because closed ones are much to claustrofobic for me.

i don't mind sound from outside sliping in, my computer is watercooled so i already payed attention to that item. but also, that way i'm keeping contact with the outside world; i'm getting crazy after a few hours of listing and i don't get sound from what i'm doing (like putting down my pencil, haha, i know can sound crazy, but it is like that)

650 with a vaster soundstage but darker sound then the akg, hard choice, but i'll go with the akg then. even if i put a good amp and dac in front and the 650 doesn't get as exact as an 701, i don't want it. as for the moment i will buy an 701. I have red a lot of reviews and fora on german hifi sites. and they also recommend the headphone ( i mean for my kind of taste)

what i listen to: all kinds of music: jazz, classic, pop, a bit of rock maybe. but i like small ensembles. Me myself i'm a singer (not professional, although i follow courses for it, but that's classical) and i sing in a two mans band with a fabulous fingerpicking guitar player. i like very much crystal clear voices off course, although i play also bass i had never any lack of bass with the single drivers, maybe a bit the akg k500, but i much more prefer to have less amount of bass but beter defined, than one big undefined lomp of bass.

what about the price, i live in europe so akg and senn is very cheap here, i can get an new sen 650 for 200 euro and an new akg k701 for 270; still for a student it's something to PAY attention. The dac and amp in the frontend will not cost that much money. I'm gonna buy an cheap dac from a diy-guy: something like 100 euro, and the amp: i thought of buying a T-class amp, a tripath, but i have heard that they have some problems with there frequency response if the load is above 16 ohm, i gotta tcheck on that again.
if this is so, i will have to deside what i'm gonna use as amp, an tube or non-tube. with a senn i would use non-tube, with a akg i could use a tube, but that's another problem. (although i know that the combination of frontend and driver makes the sound)

but i'm still waiting on some comment on the stax. they are still within my interst. and powerd by a tube they tend to sound very good. (at least that's what an owner of a stax headphone told me). Still i donno, but at least if it is not the stax, it's gonna be the 701, that's for shure already

thanx everybody for your kind information.


ps: the two sites from where i will order :
http://dddac.de/
www.diyparadise.com
but that's another topic i suppose, but i just put it here for those who want to know what i'm gonna put in front of it.

greetings

 

[osdohtem]

maybe hd650 will be got your ear !,calssic and Jazz sounds good ! and grado RS-1 maybe can use on pop and rock music !

 

[jl123]

The hd650s brighten up after removing the foam.

It's as if the veil is gone and still keeps the great lows. My k701s aren't looking too good anymore.

Still a great can though. I just prefer more bass than what the akg can offer. Good luck.

 

[Don Quichotte]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fille also i have them on if i'm working, and typing, so i need headphones which doesn't make a lot of sound every time i move my head

The Stax may not be your best bet in this case.
Have you used the search function?
Stax 3030 review: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=171209

 

[fille]

thanx everybody,

i have made up my mind, it's gonna be an akg k701,
but first i'm gonna refurbish my k500 and i'm gonna look for an amp.
but i'll post that in the other parts of the forum

thanx a lot