[xxx1313]

PS.or as Freddie used to say...the show must go on

So true. But contrary to Freddie's show in the Wembley stadium the ticket prices in the high end headphone freak show are to much high.

 

[Nomax]

So true. But contrary to Freddie's show in the Wembley stadium the ticket prices in the high end heaphone freak show are to much high.

Why to much?
These are the Vip tickets...they are in high demand

NOMAX

PS.Haven't laughed so much in a long
Now fun by the side....I am also interested to read from others to experiences they make with the Nutopia

 

[iamoneagain]

Every Clear MG plays over the Zmf´s....and indeed over all models

NOMAX

PS.I mean 2500 -3500 Euro....for what?
I was almost struck by the blow and was really shocked by Atrium/Verite etc
(Even though I don't like the Hifimans...but the Arya Stealth doesn't do a bad job for 1500 Euros...a bit sharp in the highs...but costs a lot less than ZMF)

Including the Caldera? When moving on from the OG Utopia I went to the Expanse and realized I liked the OG Utopia more in the end. But instead of going back to the OG or on to the 2022 model, gave the Caldera a shot, never hearing ZMF before. I’m happy to say it paid off. Still punchy, energetic, detailed, and most importantly fun.

Now if I stayed with the OG Utopia, I would still have been perfectly happy since it paired so well with the Naim HE, I was just looking to see what else was out there I may also love. I briefly heard the new Utopia and it sounded great but also just slightly different from the original. I’m sure if I would have gone in that direction I would also be happy. The big advantage of the Caldera is the lifetime warranty on the drivers and the looks appeal to me much more than Focal’s. Technically I think they could complement the Utopia if one has the money for both.

 

[Nomax]

@iamoneagain

Unfortunately, there is not much besides the Stealth and the Utopia/Nutopia in the high-price segment where I can raise the thumbs up
Diana Phi/Tc was at least from the sonic performance a very good model
But from the whole construct....here we are worlds away, where you have to go for the proclaimed price ( 5.500 Euros️)
Maybe I still experience it in my life that I once a construct of Joe on the level of a Meze in my hands hold

NOMAX

PS.but who knows what we can expect in the foreseeable future



(....this will be a celebration of joy )

 

[iamoneagain]

@iamoneagain

Unfortunately, there is not much besides the Stealth and the Utopia/Nutopia in the high-price segment where I can raise the thumbs up
Diana Phi/Tc was at least from the sonic performance a very good model
But from the whole construct....here we are worlds away, where you have to go for the proclaimed price ( 5000 Euros️)
Maybe I still experience it in my life that I once a construct of Joe on the level of a Meze in my hands hold

NOMAX

PS.but who knows what we can expect in the foreseeable future

Doesn’t really answer if you’ve heard the Caldera or not? Can’t just dismiss it without hearing just based on prior impressions of other ZMF headphones. I’ve never heard the others, I have no idea what the ZMF house sound is.

I’m not even really saying the Calders is better but just coming from someone who loved the Original Utopia, I’m enjoying the Caldera just as much and if not more. This doesn’t take away from the Utopia or what the new model would have given me. It was appealing but the higher price threw me off. And I was looking for something a little different and felt the new model was more of the same, which is actually a very good thing if just looking to upgrade.

 

[Nomax]

No I haven't heard the Caldera yet...but I can't imagine that this one comes anywhere near the tonal performance and
construct that justifies the 4.000 Euros

NOMAX

PS.beacause the others were also nothing to my ears

 

[number1sixerfan]

First day of having the Utopia, used them while working and then more critically into the evening. I'll wait a few more days to go more in-depth and compare to the Expanse when I have them, but I owned the OGs for quite a bit of time and on this same system (minus the Innuos Phoenix USB) which is making this a pretty simple evaluation for me. I'm using them directly from the Dave, which I did primarily for about half of my time of ownership with the OG (the latter half). However, with all of that said, this is from memory, obviously direct comparison would be best. Only a few initial thoughts:

• Immediately fun and well balanced out of the gate, just like the original version, but probably a bit more balanced for most users given the taming of the highs
• Although I don't have them directly to compare, from memory, the differences between the two are pretty subtle across the board with one exception imo: tonal balance. As just mentioned the Nutopia is definitely less offensive in the highs than the original, andis also a bit warmer altogether. This doesn't seem like a huge difference, but there is a pro and a con to it. The pro: there hasn't been an ounce of brightness to my ears at any point. The con: there is a very slight veil to the resolution, which I think is a bit of a tradeoff here. I noticed this immediately and I never felt that way about the OG. I can see the appeal of both and actually I would hate to have to decide between both on this front lol, but if the clarity and detailed nature (overall more analytical sounding, which we know isn't everyone's cup of tea either) of the OG is what love about them, I would definitely try to hear them first
  • Also because of subjectivity, this is the one aspect where I think people may think there's a larger difference between the OG/Nutopia than I do. I.e. if the highs were a major offender to you, you will likely think there is a much larger difference than I do overall.
• Still for me, it's clear that neither the OG, nor the Nutopia is as resolving as the TC/Susvara/009 level of headphones. However, on this second go round, I partially wonder how much of that is due to the more intimate and closed in presentation, which also has its own strengths and benefits (I enjoy it), vs. actually being less resolving generally. I'll be thinking about this as the days go on and as I compare to the Expanse (I'll also compare to the 009 as well). Also, I want to be clear here that the difference is not huge. It's right behind that class imo and very acceptable and impressive in its own right.
• Soundstage left to right is a bit wider than the original. Not by much, but opens things up just a bit more ever so slightly, it's still a bit more compressed than other headphones, but again there are direct strengths from that I would not want to lose by opening things up further. What is still very impressive is just how much space it covers from front to back, which it always did. Very impressive in that regard, as it gives a very holographic effect despite not having the widest soundstage.

Overall again, it's very good and very fun. I would hate to have to choose between both as it would be hard for me, but what I can say about the Nutopia is for certain it's the easier of the two to listen long term. In fact, when I had the original, rarely would I listen for more than two hours (although I did love the original presentation as well tbc). I did that today easily, without a single issue. That said, being as transparent as I can be, I have to mention that I confirmed my original hunch very quickly. It would be hard for me to justify the leap given the price difference and used market and the small difference in changes from the OG (again, from memory). The OG has certainly become an incredible value, sans any reliability concerns. That's not to open a can of worms, I just had two issues personally with my OG and had them repaired at one point. I'm simply admitting that if Focal did something to improve reliability, certainly to me it bumps up the justification factor just a bit. Lastly, had these seemed drastically different even just from memory, I was possibly planning to purchase a used OG Utopia to compare, but that is just no longer in the cards given my findings above--unless things change.

Edit: I'll share some pics tomorrow, but they look the same lol. The Utopia has always looked amazing, and I do like the newer look just a bit better I think.

 

[joshnor713]

First day of having the Utopia, used them while working and then more critically into the evening. I'll wait a few more days to go more in-depth and compare to the Expanse when I have them, but I owned the OGs for quite a bit of time and on this same system (minus the Innuos Phoenix USB) which is making this a pretty simple evaluation for me. I'm using them directly from the Dave, which I did primarily for about half of my time of ownership with the OG (the latter half). However, with all of that said, this is from memory, obviously direct comparison would be best. Only a few initial thoughts:

• Immediately fun and well balanced out of the gate, just like the original version, but probably a bit more balanced for most users given the taming of the highs
• Although I don't have them directly to compare, from memory, the differences between the two are pretty subtle across the board with one exception imo: tonal balance. As just mentioned the Nutopia is definitely less offensive in the highs than the original, andis also a bit warmer altogether. This doesn't seem like a huge difference, but there is a pro and a con to it. The pro: there hasn't been an ounce of brightness to my ears at any point. The con: there is a very slight veil to the resolution, which I think is a bit of a tradeoff here. I noticed this immediately and I never felt that way about the OG. I can see the appeal of both and actually I would hate to have to decide between both on this front lol, but if the clarity and detailed nature (overall more analytical sounding, which we know isn't everyone's cup of tea either) of the OG is what love about them, I would definitely try to hear them first
  • Also because of subjectivity, this is the one aspect where I think people may think there's a larger difference between the OG/Nutopia than I do. I.e. if the highs were a major offender to you, you will likely think there is a much larger difference than I do overall.
• Still for me, it's clear that neither the OG, nor the Nutopia is as resolving as the TC/Susvara/009 level of headphones. However, on this second go round, I partially wonder how much of that is due to the more intimate and closed in presentation, which also has its own strengths and benefits (I enjoy it), vs. actually being less resolving generally. I'll be thinking about this as the days go on and as I compare to the Expanse (I'll also compare to the 009 as well). Also, I want to be clear here that the difference is not huge. It's right behind that class imo and very acceptable and impressive in its own right.
• Soundstage left to right is a bit wider than the original. Not by much, but opens things up just a bit more ever so slightly, it's still a bit more compressed than other headphones, but again there are direct strengths from that I would not want to lose by opening things up further. What is still very impressive is just how much space it covers from front to back, which it always did. Very impressive in that regard, as it gives a very holographic effect despite not having the widest soundstage.

Overall again, it's very good and very fun. I would hate to have to choose between both as it would be hard for me, but what I can say about the Nutopia is for certain it's the easier of the two to listen long term. In fact, when I had the original, rarely would I listen for more than two hours (although I did love the original presentation as well tbc). I did that today easily, without a single issue. That said, being as transparent as I can be, I have to mention that I confirmed my original hunch very quickly. It would be hard for me to justify the leap given the price difference and used market and the small difference in changes from the OG (again, from memory). The OG has certainly become an incredible value, sans any reliability concerns. That's not to open a can of worms, I just had two issues personally with my OG and had them repaired at one point. I'm simply admitting that if Focal did something to improve reliability, certainly to me it bumps up the justification factor just a bit. Lastly, had these seemed drastically different even just from memory, I was possibly planning to purchase a used OG Utopia to compare, but that is just no longer in the cards given my findings above--unless things change.

Edit: I'll share some pics tomorrow, but they look the same lol. The Utopia has always looked amazing, and I do like the newer look just a bit better I think.

I appreciate your opinions. This is really helpful for current OG owners.

I'm glad that opinions are consistent for this release. As an OG Utopia owner, I have a good idea of what to expect if I were to "upgrade" and that's a great thing. I don't have to sit here and dwell on what I could be missing out. I kinda know without hearing it, which is a rarity in this hobby that really makes it suck financially.

It sounds like the new Utopia can be summed up as an OG Utopia through a tube amp. It's a simplification, but the differences you describe are what you gain with a tube amp. I guess the kicker is that not all tube amp are created equal. But if you have one that balances transparency with added body, then I'm just not seeing a reason to "upgrade".

 

[mtoc]

Only a few initial thoughts:

can you do some detailed shootouts? the resolution comparison can be emitted though, since utopia is in the tier b vs the others

 

[Petergrifindor]

Yesterday I tried the Nutopia trough a Naim Atom HE, and I brought my OG to make an A/B comparison.

The new ones are a little more bassy and warm than the originals, but other than that they are very similar. Listening to Liberian Girl by Michael Jackson, the bass hit harder with the Nutopias, and that can be more fun in some tracks, but overall I slightly prefer the originals. They also punch hard and they have more clarity. But if you like one of them is very likely you will also enjoy the other, they are not that far appart.

It was the first time I heard the Utopias through a good equipment, and while they sounded great trough the Naim, it comfirmed what I love the most about this headphones in the first place... they sound amazing through a 30$ apple dongle. It's a blessing they are soooo easy to drive, it makes them very portable on trips, holidays or if I want to listen when I'm not at my desktop.

 

[number1sixerfan]

can you do some detailed shootouts? the resolution comparison can be emitted though, since utopia is in the tier b vs the others

I'll definitely provide follow up details, but it may take a while. Trying to hold off a bit until I have the Expanse and Caldera as well. Will need to give it a week or two to follow up as I go, but will provide updates along the way.

 

[Malcyg]

Yesterday I tried the Nutopia trough a Naim Atom HE, and I brought my OG to make an A/B comparison.

The new ones are a little more bassy and warm than the originals, but other than that they are very similar. Listening to Liberian Girl by Michael Jackson, the bass hit harder with the Nutopias, and that can be more fun in some tracks, but overall I slightly prefer the originals. They also punch hard and they have more clarity. But if you like one of them is very likely you will also enjoy the other, they are not that far appart.

It was the first time I heard the Utopias through a good equipment, and while they sounded great trough the Naim, it comfirmed what I love the most about this headphones in the first place... they sound amazing through a 30$ apple dongle. It's a blessing they are soooo easy to drive, it makes them very portable on trips, holidays or if I want to listen when I'm not at my desktop.

I’d agree here. The new Utopia seems a similar fashioned update to the Senn HD800S over the HD800 in that they address similar criticism of the original model. I own and prefer both the original HD800 and original Utopia but, with both, getting a correct synergy with driving equipment is the key. Having wrestled for a while with driving Susvara, I bought Utopia a few years back for convenience use because they were easy to drive and sounded pretty good. They only ever sounded ‘pretty good’ until last year when changes in my system permitted me to drive them with a 4.4mm balanced output. In this configuration, the performance was elevated significantly and the fatiguing hardness that I had previously had to tolerate was removed and they became a very enjoyable alternative to Susvara and 1266 Phi TC. When I was searching for a 4.4mm cable, I came across a detailed review of Utopia which highlighted this issue of treble performance using stock single ended cable and noted that the issue disappeared when using a balanced configuration. My own experience mirrors those comments.

I have heard the new Utopia and feel no inclination whatsoever to upgrade whereas I may have been tempted prior to switching to balanced configuration. I did actually purchase the HD800S back in the day and kept them for a while until I found that HD800 were in fact superior when driven optimally. As ever, system synergies are crucial in order to really hear the best from our gear and, for me now, original Utopia does live up to the original hype that accompanied the launch.

 

[Exekuhtor]

When I was searching for a 4.4mm cable, I came across a detailed review of Utopia which highlighted this issue of treble performance using stock single ended cable and noted that the issue disappeared when using a balanced configuration. My own experience mirrors those comments.

For me it was the mids, they were so aggressive, forward and right in my eyeball. I could not enjoy the Utopia. Got a (relatively) cheap custom copper Forza cable and the problem was solved. I wasn't a cable believer (and still am not, at least mostly), so this change was so weird for me.

 

[Malcyg]

For me it was the mids, they were so aggressive, forward and right in my eyeball. I could not enjoy the Utopia. Got a (relatively) cheap custom copper Forza cable and the problem was solved. I wasn't a cable believer (and still am not, at least mostly), so this change was so weird for me.

Yes, agree. There is a fine line between upper mids and lower treble I guess, but you are right. That aggressive punch is relieved and mine now are actually relatively relaxed sounding, whilst still being very fast and dynamic. I too went copper using a Black Dragon.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I’d agree here. The new Utopia seems a similar fashioned update to the Senn HD800S over the HD800 in that they address similar criticism of the original model. I own and prefer both the original HD800 and original Utopia but, with both, getting a correct synergy with driving equipment is the key. Having wrestled for a while with driving Susvara, I bought Utopia a few years back for convenience use because they were easy to drive and sounded pretty good. They only ever sounded ‘pretty good’ until last year when changes in my system permitted me to drive them with a 4.4mm balanced output. In this configuration, the performance was elevated significantly and the fatiguing hardness that I had previously had to tolerate was removed and they became a very enjoyable alternative to Susvara and 1266 Phi TC. When I was searching for a 4.4mm cable, I came across a detailed review of Utopia which highlighted this issue of treble performance using stock single ended cable and noted that the issue disappeared when using a balanced configuration. My own experience mirrors those comments.

I have heard the new Utopia and feel no inclination whatsoever to upgrade whereas I may have been tempted prior to switching to balanced configuration. I did actually purchase the HD800S back in the day and kept them for a while until I found that HD800 were in fact superior when driven optimally. As ever, system synergies are crucial in order to really hear the best from our gear and, for me now, original Utopia does live up to the original hype that accompanied the launch.

Yup, I would say the HD800 and HD800S is a good comparison in that regard.

I would say however, all in all, I would truly encourage OG owners to try to hear them if you can (but obviously without the 'you need to upgrade, they're the greatest thing on earth' mantra. They are very smooth and enjoyable for hours and retain most of the goodness from the original. I'm very much enjoying them. For me, the lack of fatigue does make a difference. Still also miss the sparkle of the original at times.. I hate how you can't get anything in this hobby without tradeoffs most of the time lol

For me it was the mids, they were so aggressive, forward and right in my eyeball. I could not enjoy the Utopia. Got a (relatively) cheap custom copper Forza cable and the problem was solved. I wasn't a cable believer (and still am not, at least mostly), so this change was so weird for me.

Definitely understandable. The 2022 is definitely still forward, but for people that maybe avoided the original Utopia because of how the brighter sound + the forward positioning made it too aggressive, I think it's certainly worth revisiting the new model. Especially if you can find at a dealer or used price.

----------

Again, these are on loan from another head-fier. Found out yesterday that I either needed to buy them or my time was up with them. I just got the Expanse yesterday and I won't be able to buy the Caldera off of him until near the end of the month, so I bought the Utopias for now from him. I don't think I'll be keeping them (or even the others) long term, but I want to do a very thorough comparison between the three, and I'm hoping I can borrow someone's Susvara soon to round it out. I'll share thoughts along the way and after a few weeks (maybe the Expanse and Utopia first and Caldera/all three after another few weeks) share in depth thoughts. Cheers!