[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, how did I miss this image??!!!? Nice setup! You really liked your chord64 didin't you?

Yes, I really like the Chord DAC64. I've had it for about two years.

Here's an updated photo of the system. The P-05 and D-05 improve a bit more with the addition of a G-03X master clock generator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any one with a very good DAC like D-05 or D-03 have tried to feed dac with a PC (using WAV or lossless format ) ? How good compare to high end transport like P-03/P-05 playing a CD ?

I use an RME HDSP 9632's digital outputs to feed external DACs.

Sound quality is very good, though not quite as good as the P-05 transport.

Connecting the RME's optical output to the Accuphase DP-500's input, I thought the PC-source was more competitive versus playing a CD. Also similar results with RME > optical or AES/EBU > Chord DAC64 versus RBCD > DP-500 > DAC64.

 

[wower]

You got the clock!??! That's so cool! I'm envious. I don't suppose you could elaborate a bit because this is a such a rare combination. I think it's really great.

to pom: I was talking to vcoheda, who was obviously picking a fight. He seems to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed lately. I can attest that normally vcoheda is more cheery and helpful.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif You got the clock!??! That's so cool! I'm envious. I don't suppose you could elaborate a bit because this is a such a rare combination. I think it's really great. to pom: I was talking to vcoheda, who was obviously picking a fight. He seems to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed lately. I can attest that normally vcoheda is more cheery and helpful.

what. by asking a question.

 

[wower]

In a thread about esoteric players?? Please lets drop it in this thread vcoheda. A solution maybe to start another thread on copies vs originals if you feel that strongly about it.

 

[vcoheda]

okay.

i think that the esoteric P/D05 is a very nice looking player and probably sounds as good, or almost so, as any currently on the market. and i also think that a cd or a wav copy of that original cd in all likelihood sound the same on said cd player.

 

[HiWire]

Nice system, Elephas.

I find it a little disturbing, however, that a system as far up the scale as the Esoteric P-05/D-05 combo needs a separate clock. Will the madness never end? Sorry about your wallet... but I'm sure you're enjoying the improved sound.

 

[wower]

Elephas? Can you (or anyone) spoil me with two more questions about this 3-unit combo?

1) What's your opinion on modding the output stage of this units? Is it good enough? Something you will consider in the future?
2) Is this a step up over the P-03/D-03? (I can't remember seeing this comparsion anywhere expect in regards to the actual transport unit.) Obviously the 01s still sit at the top but is this an upgrade over the 03s or is Esoteric filling out their line. I must admit I wouldn't go for the 03s after all I've read but the 05s seem perfect. And now there is a x05 out there.

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif Elephas? Can you (or anyone) spoil me with two more questions about this 3-unit combo? 1) What's your opinion on modding the output stage of this units? Is it good enough? Something you will consider in the future? 2) Is this a step up over the P-03/D-03? (I can't remember seeing this comparsion anywhere expect in regards to the actual transport unit.) Obviously the 01s still sit at the top but is this an upgrade over the 03s or is Esoteric filling out their line. I must admit I wouldn't go for the 03s after all I've read but the 05s seem perfect. And now there is a x05 out there.

1) I believe AC2 in Japan and apl-hifi in California do modifications to Esoteric units. I don't really have an opinion on these mods, and have never heard any modded units.

2) I've also never heard the P-03/D-03. I would expect it to be better than the P-05/D-05, even if the 05 units are aided by the G-03X clock. My somewhat limited experience with digital sources leads me to believe that a company usually has very good reasons when pricing and positioning its products within their lineup. I don't think Esoteric launched the P-05/D-05 as a competitor or replacement for the P-03/D-03; the 03 units are twice as expensive as the 05 units.

I've seen the X-05, but haven't heard it. The other Esoteric sources I've heard are the SA-10, SA-60, X-03SE and X-01D2. I preferred the SA-60 over the Accuphase DP-500 in a direct comparison, and I thought the X-01D2 sounded especially good.

I think the "lower-end" Esoteric units such as the SA-60, X-03SE and P-05/D-05 are very good sources. It requires a much better, and usually much more expensive, source to reach a higher level of quality. Even so, the differences usually become smaller as you go up the line. Other factors, such as synergy, system matching and associated gear might make as much or greater difference between sources when their quality reaches a high level.

But even as the differences between high-end sources become smaller, I believe that one tends to become "used to" a source's sound over time. Then, the difference with another comparable source might seem quite large to an individual listener.

I think source quality is a wallet-draining curse.

Once you become accustomed to a certain type of source, you might find lesser sources less enjoyable or even unlistenable. Take heed, and beware the source curse.

The "Team Source First" guys have no energy to argue with others, we're too busy crying over our empty wallets. And I don't feel like listening to my iPod portable rig anymore.

 

[milkpowder]

Just when I thought Esoteric was moving away from DSD->PCM, then I read about the X-05 using 24/192 DACs

Is there any chance we could take a peak under the hood of your Esoteric goodies? Pretty please?!

 

[wower]

Thanks Elephas. You're a source first guy; I should of guessed. I love the look of the p05/d05. I bet you could roll them down a hill. Do they weight a ton?

Quote:

Just when I thought Esoteric was moving away from DSD->PCM, then I read about the X-05 using 24/192 DACs

TEAC has some pretty major engineers working for them, espeically in this cost-no-object arm of the company. Those extra transfers worry me too but I just hope they know what they are doing.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif TEAC has some pretty major engineers working for them, espeically in this cost-no-object arm of the company. Those extra transfers worry me too but I just hope they know what they are doing.

The main surprise comes only because they've started doing native DSD decoding on their lower end players, even offering the option to do PCM->DSD. So why the step backwards? By going DSD->PCM, don't you effectively lose out on the benefits of the DSD format? Anyway, I also hope that they know what they are doing but I have no worries about the final sound as I have experienced Esoteric players first hand (both DSD and DSD->PCM) and both sound pretty darn exquisite

 

[humanflyz]

There are some legitimate reasons to convert DSD to PCM, one of which is experience, because PCM has been around for a long time and engineers have learned a lot of tricks manipulating it than DSD. Second, DSD has higher distortion numbers on high frequencies, but this is debatable: some say it's audible, other say it's not.

Personally, I find that doing PCM->DSD conversion on my Esoteric DV-60 does not sound as good as regular PCM upsampling. This only applies to Redbook CDs though, because native DSD-decoding on SACDs sound good.

As for the analog output stage, the Esoteric players use integrated circuits, so it's not a discrete output stage, and the balanced output is done through phase-splitting through an op-amp.

 

[bsckwan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif The main surprise comes only because they've started doing native DSD decoding on their lower end players, even offering the option to do PCM->DSD. So why the step backwards? By going DSD->PCM, don't you effectively lose out on the benefits of the DSD format? Anyway, I also hope that they know what they are doing but I have no worries about the final sound as I have experienced Esoteric players first hand (both DSD and DSD->PCM) and both sound pretty darn exquisite

Doesn't the X-05 use the same DAC (Cirrus Logic CS4398) as the SA-60 where decoding method used is DSD?
http://www.teac.com/esoteric/Templat...son_Matrix.pdf

 

[milkpowder]

Indeed. I distinctly remember reading CES show impressions saying the X-05 is DSD to PCM. Guess they're wrong

 

[florianhassel]

I am late to the party, rather this thread but as I am currently researching players and transports - Esoteric X-01D2, Accuphase DP700, and Linn Akurate - I found this a very interesting thread.

There seems to be, however, a bit of misleading information how Esoteric is economizing with its newer transports. I have the impression that most of this is wrong.

The X-01 D2 for example, uses exactly the same transport as the P-03 - at least according to Esoteric itself. It is NOT a downgraded version from the X-01 LE, but actually an improved one, with better noise isolation, and a new shutter.

The German magazine Stereo examined both the old version and the D2-version in a review in November 2007, even showed the improvements in photographs, so this is no hearsay.

The transport used in the P-01 is used only there, and so on.

To clear up things, Teac has posted a new brochure with comparisons.

TEAC Esoteric

Regards,
Florian Hassel