New Dragonfly Black and Red Discussion
Jun 25, 2016 at 5:39 PM Post #872 of 5,051

Devodonaldson

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I listen to hip hop with the red all the time. Pairs well with my V-moda m100. Clean detail, punchy deep bass. But this what the headphone is known for. The red will enhance whatever sound signature is present in the headphones. I mainly chose the red over black because I know that at some point in the future, I'm going to purchase a much higher impedance headphone.
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 5:56 PM Post #873 of 5,051

WutDaFunk

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For the past year, every time I want to listen to music on my home theater setup I would just use the line out from my dragonfly connected to my computer and plug it into the AUX port on the front of my receiver. If I buy a 3.5 to RCA cable and use the audio in RCA ports on the back of the receiver instead, will it make any difference at all?
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 6:17 PM Post #874 of 5,051

duracek

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I currently use the black dragonfly and in my opinion it sounds sublime compared to my previous Fiio. Apologies if this has been asked previously but do you think the chord mojo would be a better purchase for me than the red dragonfly. Also welcome to other ideas.
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 6:24 PM Post #875 of 5,051

fjrabon

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I currently use the black dragonfly and in my opinion it sounds sublime compared to my previous Fiio. Apologies if this has been asked previously but do you think the chord mojo would be a better purchase for me than the red dragonfly. Also welcome to other ideas.


The Mojo sounds better by a little bit than the dragonfly red (which to my ears sounds a decent amount better than the black). Mostly comes down to how you're using them. I loved the Mojo, but I personally found it not portable enough to be a portable amp id actually use, and not user friendly enough to be a desktop DAC. Ultimately I found the DFR and the Grace m9XX to be a better solution for the way I used them than the Mojo. But I'll never say anything bad about the sound of the Mojo. It's a superb sounding unit.
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 6:35 PM Post #876 of 5,051

duracek

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The Mojo sounds better by a little bit than the dragonfly red (which to my ears sounds a decent amount better than the black). Mostly comes down to how you're using them. I loved the Mojo, but I personally found it not portable enough to be a portable amp id actually use, and not user friendly enough to be a desktop DAC. Ultimately I found the DFR and the Grace m9XX to be a better solution for the way I used them than the Mojo. But I'll never say anything bad about the sound of the Mojo. It's a superb sounding unit.

It is double the price though and your stated benefit was "a little bit". Should I go for it?
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 6:44 PM Post #877 of 5,051

canali

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It is double the price though and your stated benefit was "a little bit". Should I go for it?

 
i hear your struggles, duracek.
been there...done that.
 
thing is: we all listen differently, come with different skill sets, too.
 
i'm not as seasoned as many on here, to be sure...but i splurged for the mojo (have the df red right now)
the mojo is in the mail.
 
 about the mojo:
good thing is you can: 
1/ say that you tried it, and thus can scratch that one off of your audio bucket list..
and
2/ can always sell it for not that great a loss, given it's high demand/resale.
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 7:53 PM Post #878 of 5,051

pkcpga

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Sorry I don't really listen to rap much, so during the demo I didn't try it on the red. I have listened to the black with jay z Empire State and it sounded great. Sound signature on both are definitely different, for some reason the black was given a warm sound signature and red was given a focus on highs and details. I have a detail oriented Iem so it became harsh with the red while gave it a nice warm sound with the black.
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 10:17 PM Post #879 of 5,051

brent75

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It is double the price though and your stated benefit was "a little bit". Should I go for it?

Actually, it's triple the price.
 
Jun 25, 2016 at 11:06 PM Post #880 of 5,051

estreeter

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Then the omission of the 3.5mm jack in newer phones may bode well for future OTG functionality.

In response to your earlier rant, Apple phones are priced and marketed as premium products which is the market that HTC and Samsung, etc. are competing with. Samsung's lower end models also have issues with OTG support as I'm sure is the case with other companies' cheaper models.

It seems to me that anyone willing to spend $200 on a gadget that does nothing more than decode and amplify music files off a parent device would also be a person willing to spend a bit more for said parent device.

In any case, there is a thread right here on Head-Fi dedicated to Android phones and USB DACs where one can research potential Android/DAC pairings before wasting cash.

 
Thanks for your response, and please dont interpret any of this as being confrontational - I've been kicking around here long enough to know how quickly a slight difference of opinion can turn into a thread killer :wink:
 
To take your last point first, I absolutely agree that I need to spend more time in the main Android thread - I think you'll accept that it's a monster, but such is life. That said, many newcomers to the hobby and DACs like the DFB many consider any failure on the part of a phone/DAC pairing to lay with the device, particularly when audio over USB has been part of the Android kernel since 5.0. I'm happy to move further discussion of Android manufacturer's shortcomings to the other thread and leave this for those of us who are simply enjoying the sound quality of these DACs.
 
My counterpoint to your claim re the iPhone being a premium product and those willing to spend DFR money on a DAC gravitating towards such products is probably summed up best by John Darko in his DFB review:
 
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/go-anywhere-with-audioquests-dragonfly-black/
 
For the sake of argument, let’s close the AK120 II vs DragonFly Black as too close to call; a matter of personal taste. Now consider this: a 16Gb iPod Touch sells for US$199. Add CCK (US$29) and DragonFly Black (US$99) and you’ve a proper portable solution that rivals the Astell&Kern but for US$328 – one fifth of the South Korean unit’s asking.
 
When I shelled out 'way too much' for the Chord Hugo in 2014, I was pilloried by some on this forum as an idiot but at the time I was thrilled with the end result, particularly as several of the portable DACs I'd previously owned had left me underwhelmed. It was the first time I was able to see the Touch and iPad as worthwhile portable sources, albeit constrained by their lack of expandable storage.  iPhone 6 users may not see Mr Darko's 16GB Touch source recommendation in the same light as their 'carry one device to do it all' uber-phone, but anyone looking to dip their toes into this hobby without spending serious dollars does have the option of buying a device that they KNOW :
 
- will work with a wide variety of DACs via an Apple-endorsed connector
- supports a variety of technologies from streaming to Airplay / UPnP / DLNA / Roon etc etc
- has a reliable resale value even when a new model is announced
 
I'm not here to sell the iTouch or anything else in Apple's universe, but I've owned pretty much everything except a Mac Pro and had good results from all of them. Add Roon and TIDAL subscriptions to Darko's numbers and you're still well under the purchase price of the iPhone 6 without being overly disadvantaged by the 15 or so GB of storage you'll be presented with when you fire up that Touch for the first time. None of this will sway anyone who insists on 24/192 or DSD on the road, but I just dont see that as the market the DFB is aimed at - YMMV.
 
Finally, I'll come back to what I said earlier about smartphones - particularly non-iOS smartphones - being disposable technology with a lifespan of 6-12 months max. Head-Fiers may well burn through high-end DAPs at a similar rate, but my experience with various Touch models is that I rarely found myself looking down at the model in my hand and feeling the need  to upgrade. It's a particularly nasty kick in the cojones to read of folk upgrading from one high-end Samsung to another and finding that USB audio didnt work any more : that's patently unacceptable IMO, but I'll take those thoughts to the other thread.
 
To try to get back on topic, I'll finish with another quote from the redoubtable Mr Darko - after 2 whole weeks (!) with the DFB I'm currently in complete agreement with him.
 
At US$99 the DragonFly Black is quite possibly the sharpest high street audio bargain available right now. It’s the quintessential everyman hifi product.
 
Jun 26, 2016 at 1:57 AM Post #881 of 5,051

Devodonaldson

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Thanks for your response, and please dont interpret any of this as being confrontational - I've been kicking around here long enough to know how quickly a slight difference of opinion can turn into a thread killer :wink:

To take your last point first, I absolutely agree that I need to spend more time in the main Android thread - I think you'll accept that it's a monster, but such is life. That said, many newcomers to the hobby and DACs like the DFB many consider any failure on the part of a phone/DAC pairing to lay with the device, particularly when audio over USB has been part of the Android kernel since 5.0. I'm happy to move further discussion of Android manufacturer's shortcomings to the other thread and leave this for those of us who are simply enjoying the sound quality of these DACs.

My counterpoint to your claim re the iPhone being a premium product and those willing to spend DFR money on a DAC gravitating towards such products is probably summed up best by John Darko in his DFB review:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/go-anywhere-with-audioquests-dragonfly-black/

For the sake of argument, let’s close the AK120 II vs DragonFly Black as too close to call; a matter of personal taste. Now consider this: a 16Gb iPod Touch sells for US$199. Add CCK (US$29) and DragonFly Black (US$99) and you’ve a proper portable solution that rivals the Astell&Kern but for US$328 – one fifth of the South Korean unit’s asking.

When I shelled out 'way too much' for the Chord Hugo in 2014, I was pilloried by some on this forum as an idiot but at the time I was thrilled with the end result, particularly as several of the portable DACs I'd previously owned had left me underwhelmed. It was the first time I was able to see the Touch and iPad as worthwhile portable sources, albeit constrained by their lack of expandable storage.  iPhone 6 users may not see Mr Darko's 16GB Touch source recommendation in the same light as their 'carry one device to do it all' uber-phone, but anyone looking to dip their toes into this hobby without spending serious dollars does have the option of buying a device that they KNOW :

- will work with a wide variety of DACs via an Apple-endorsed connector
- supports a variety of technologies from streaming to Airplay / UPnP / DLNA / Roon etc etc
- has a reliable resale value even when a new model is announced

I'm not here to sell the iTouch or anything else in Apple's universe, but I've owned pretty much everything except a Mac Pro and had good results from all of them. Add Roon and TIDAL subscriptions to Darko's numbers and you're still well under the purchase price of the iPhone 6 without being overly disadvantaged by the 15 or so GB of storage you'll be presented with when you fire up that Touch for the first time. None of this will sway anyone who insists on 24/192 or DSD on the road, but I just dont see that as the market the DFB is aimed at - YMMV.

Finally, I'll come back to what I said earlier about smartphones - particularly non-iOS smartphones - being disposable technology with a lifespan of 6-12 months max. Head-Fiers may well burn through high-end DAPs at a similar rate, but my experience with various Touch models is that I rarely found myself looking down at the model in my hand and feeling the need  to upgrade. It's a particularly nasty kick in the cojones to read of folk upgrading from one high-end Samsung to another and finding that USB audio didnt work any more : that's patently unacceptable IMO, but I'll take those thoughts to the other thread.

To try to get back on topic, I'll finish with another quote from the redoubtable Mr Darko - after 2 whole weeks (!) with the DFB I'm currently in complete agreement with him.

At US$99 the DragonFly Black is quite possibly the sharpest high street audio bargain available right now. It’s the quintessential everyman hifi product.
understand the points you are trying to make, but had every Samsung flagship at some point since the galaxy s3 and usb audio has never been a problem. There are a select few high end devices with issue, but it's rare, on the high end of spectrum of Android phones.
 
Jun 26, 2016 at 4:53 AM Post #882 of 5,051

Duncan

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Just received a parcel, so - as they say, let battle commence...

 
Jun 26, 2016 at 5:20 AM Post #883 of 5,051

kelly200269

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Then the omission of the 3.5mm jack in newer phones may bode well for future OTG functionality.

In response to your earlier rant, Apple phones are priced and marketed as premium products which is the market that HTC and Samsung, etc. are competing with. Samsung's lower end models also have issues with OTG support as I'm sure is the case with other companies' cheaper models.

It seems to me that anyone willing to spend $200 on a gadget that does nothing more than decode and amplify music files off a parent device would also be a person willing to spend a bit more for said parent device.

In any case, there is a thread right here on Head-Fi dedicated to Android phones and USB DACs where one can research potential Android/DAC pairings before wasting cash.

 
Thanks for your response, and please dont interpret any of this as being confrontational - I've been kicking around here long enough to know how quickly a slight difference of opinion can turn into a thread killer :wink:
 
To take your last point first, I absolutely agree that I need to spend more time in the main Android thread - I think you'll accept that it's a monster, but such is life. That said, many newcomers to the hobby and DACs like the DFB many consider any failure on the part of a phone/DAC pairing to lay with the device, particularly when audio over USB has been part of the Android kernel since 5.0. I'm happy to move further discussion of Android manufacturer's shortcomings to the other thread and leave this for those of us who are simply enjoying the sound quality of these DACs.
 
My counterpoint to your claim re the iPhone being a premium product and those willing to spend DFR money on a DAC gravitating towards such products is probably summed up best by John Darko in his DFB review:
 
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/04/go-anywhere-with-audioquests-dragonfly-black/
 
For the sake of argument, let’s close the AK120 II vs DragonFly Black as too close to call; a matter of personal taste. Now consider this: a 16Gb iPod Touch sells for US$199. Add CCK (US$29) and DragonFly Black (US$99) and you’ve a proper portable solution that rivals the Astell&Kern but for US$328 – one fifth of the South Korean unit’s asking.
 
When I shelled out 'way too much' for the Chord Hugo in 2014, I was pilloried by some on this forum as an idiot but at the time I was thrilled with the end result, particularly as several of the portable DACs I'd previously owned had left me underwhelmed. It was the first time I was able to see the Touch and iPad as worthwhile portable sources, albeit constrained by their lack of expandable storage.  iPhone 6 users may not see Mr Darko's 16GB Touch source recommendation in the same light as their 'carry one device to do it all' uber-phone, but anyone looking to dip their toes into this hobby without spending serious dollars does have the option of buying a device that they KNOW :
 
- will work with a wide variety of DACs via an Apple-endorsed connector
- supports a variety of technologies from streaming to Airplay / UPnP / DLNA / Roon etc etc
- has a reliable resale value even when a new model is announced
 
I'm not here to sell the iTouch or anything else in Apple's universe, but I've owned pretty much everything except a Mac Pro and had good results from all of them. Add Roon and TIDAL subscriptions to Darko's numbers and you're still well under the purchase price of the iPhone 6 without being overly disadvantaged by the 15 or so GB of storage you'll be presented with when you fire up that Touch for the first time. None of this will sway anyone who insists on 24/192 or DSD on the road, but I just dont see that as the market the DFB is aimed at - YMMV.
 
Finally, I'll come back to what I said earlier about smartphones - particularly non-iOS smartphones - being disposable technology with a lifespan of 6-12 months max. Head-Fiers may well burn through high-end DAPs at a similar rate, but my experience with various Touch models is that I rarely found myself looking down at the model in my hand and feeling the need  to upgrade. It's a particularly nasty kick in the cojones to read of folk upgrading from one high-end Samsung to another and finding that USB audio didnt work any more : that's patently unacceptable IMO, but I'll take those thoughts to the other thread.
 
To try to get back on topic, I'll finish with another quote from the redoubtable Mr Darko - after 2 whole weeks (!) with the DFB I'm currently in complete agreement with him.
 
At US$99 the DragonFly Black is quite possibly the sharpest high street audio bargain available right now. It’s the quintessential everyman hifi product.


I think what you're trying to say is that an iPod Touch or an iPhone is a perfect companion to a DF, rather than an Android 'phone?
I agree with you completely. I have an Xperia Z5, and bought it for it's audio capabilities. But I've been completely underwhelmed. Yes, it has LDAC BT, and the built-in music player plays high resolution music files natively, but the Bluetooth performance is patchy, it drops-out regularly and using it for music is just a frustrating experience. Especially with the DFR, for which you need an OTG cable, and then you then have to select 'USB Detect' in settings. A complete faff.
Compare that to using a DFR with my iPod Touch 5G 64GB, and it couldn't be easier. Plug in the CCK/DFR and off you go. I love using this combo for my Qobuz music, even in preference to using Qobuz on my NW-ZX2. OK, it might not sound quite as good as the ZX2, but as a user experience via iOS it's much better.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Jun 26, 2016 at 9:21 AM Post #884 of 5,051

Duncan

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Straight away, one interesting thing about the LG, take a look at the DAC bit rate...



Seems the ESS9028 does what the ESS9016 cannot, high bit rate and low power consumption...

This is going to be an interesting fight!

(edit to correct DAC part number)
 
Jun 26, 2016 at 11:31 AM Post #885 of 5,051

0rangutan

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The Mojo sounds better by a little bit than the dragonfly red (which to my ears sounds a decent amount better than the black). Mostly comes down to how you're using them. I loved the Mojo, but I personally found it not portable enough to be a portable amp id actually use, and not user friendly enough to be a desktop DAC. Ultimately I found the DFR and the Grace m9XX to be a better solution for the way I used them than the Mojo. But I'll never say anything bad about the sound of the Mojo. It's a superb sounding unit.


Couldn't agree more.
I have been through a very similar journey and ended up selling the Mojo and keeping the Grace M9XX for desktop duties and DFB for portable.
The Mojo was no better than the Grace in the desktop setup, while being less easy to use.
The Mojo sounded a little better than the DFB for portable, but not enough to justify either the extra cost or reduced portability (and certainly not both).
 

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