New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Impressions Thread
Aug 30, 2012 at 5:00 AM Post #766 of 1,588
Quote:
 
I would steer you away from the 7100. They're way too overpriced at the $1200 price point. There's a lot better cans out there for that price. The LCD-2 would be a clear winner over the 7100. I think the D5000s would also be a lot better can. 

 
 
I fully agree that the D7100 isn't worth the its asking price. Other headphones in this price range (or lower than that), such as the HD800, T1, ESP-950 and whatever Audeze and Hifiman are offering, are all better choices. From an objective point, the D7100 is actually pretty bad - it's overpriced, the frequency response is totally derailed, the design is awful et cetera. After seeing the measurements at innerfidelity, I fully expected to recoil with disgust when putting on the D7100.
 
And yet I didn't. I don't know why, but I can't bring myself to dislike the D7100 completely. It's true, the HD800 (and others) are far better in all regards - there's no question about it. If you're looking to spend this kind of money, one of the aforementioned headphones would serve you much better than the new Denons. But, as a complementary pair of headphones in addition to my HD800 and ESP-950, the D7100 does have quite a few redeeming qualities. They sound excellent from a portable Player. The sound signature combined with the isolation makes them an excellent choice for low-volume listening. They sound like open headphones while being closed. The sound is not balanced at all, but very clear, with very strong, punchy bass, half-decent mids and sparkly treble. Someone wrote that they didn't have any sparkle; I disagree - they have a very clear bump at around 8-10 kHz, similar to Beyers. It's true that the rest of the treble is off the chart, but this peak makes them sound clear without being harsh. In short, a "fun" sounding signature, but without the usual mid-bass-morass and shrieking treble.
Note that these are merely first impressions and likely to change, I'll write some more in a full review after a couple of days.
 
Taking an objective approuch, these should sound bad. Really bad. And yet they don't. Why I don't know, but I like them. There's a lot of "negative hype", mostly based on the arguably horrible design. I'd recommend to take a step back and not to judge too hastily.
I have to repeat my previous statement: There are much better headphones out there for this price. A HD800, for example, is superior in every way. I'd consider the Denons to be priced fairly at about $700 (Possibly the price will drop after some time), but not at at $1200. Still, I'd refrain from saying that these are just plain bad headphones - they're not.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 5:28 AM Post #767 of 1,588
As a long time fan of the Denon DX000 series headphones, I was definitely disappointed. It sounded like they tried to go off of the D7000 design, but took a step back. The 'bass' was artificial sounding. It sounded like I was in a closed off concrete room and it echoed everywhere. I didn't think it sounded open either. I felt rather closed off by the sound too. I didn't get enough time to really analyze the phones, but I remember thinking "I'm not buying these in the future". 
 
The consensus at the LA meet was the same as mine. 
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 5:52 AM Post #768 of 1,588
I'm not familiar with the old Denons, so I can't really draw any comparisons - but I do think that the D7100 is rather open sounding compared to other closed headphones. It's no HD800 to be sure, but reasonably open.
I agree about the resonances though, they're a problem. If I'm informed correctly, i think this was an issue that the older Denons had as well, and remedied by the MarkL mod? Perhaps the new ones can be "fixed" in a similar way.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 8:54 AM Post #769 of 1,588
Some photos of the internals:
 

Driver outside
 

Driver inside
 

Cup inside - note the foam-ish dampening material. I wonder why it's just in the lower half of the cups?
 

The cups seem to be quite shallow, the driver probably almost touches the center part of the cups. Still, I wonder what could be achieved by dampening the entire outer part of the cups.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 9:39 AM Post #771 of 1,588
[size=13.0pt]I recently purchased the D7100 with the 20% coupon from Headphone Solutions.  I thought this was a great deal until reading a barrage of head-fi posts on Denon’s new offering.  How quickly buyer’s remorse can set in.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]However, my impressions over the last 3-4 days have actually been quite favorable despite disparaging measurements.  I know that may not be a popular opinion…it is still early and I am not a technical listener by any stretch.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]As background, I have owned the Ultrasone 780's, Denon 2k's, RS1's (twice), T1's, and currently have the HD800's, which I have come to really enjoy.  [/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]I mention this because the first time I put on the 7100’s I was blown away by the bass and not in a good away.  It seemed too much.  I think my progression in headphones had something to do with this.  However, my ears have since “adjusted” as the added low-end weight seems to work well for my older rock recordings that were unlistenable with the HD800’s. [/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]Additionally, I agree with Mad Dude that the 7100’s are fairly open for a closed set of headphones.  Despite the copious low-end (compared to the HD800’s), the instrument separation seems excellent.  Listening to James Taylor’s “That’s Why I’m here” Taylor’s voice seems to jump out front and center with a nice pleasing bass line pumping in to support.  I can clearly articulate each instrument.  It’s a nice listen.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]I am most pleased with the D7100’s articulation of hard rock, my favorite genre.  Megadeth’s “Tornado of Souls” opening palm mute riff just oozes aggression.  Love the guitar crunch with the 7100’s.  I am a fan so far. [/size]
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 10:52 AM Post #772 of 1,588
Quote:
Some photos of the internals:
 

Driver outside
 

Driver inside
 

Cup inside - note the foam-ish dampening material. I wonder why it's just in the lower half of the cups?
 

The cups seem to be quite shallow, the driver probably almost touches the center part of the cups. Still, I wonder what could be achieved by dampening the entire outer part of the cups.

My D600 drivers are identical looking and the cups are the same but in plastic, right down to the 2 holes covered in material with one left open.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 11:18 AM Post #774 of 1,588
Shameless plug, 
tongue_smile.gif
 my D600's are up for sale (see listing in my sig). 
 
They sound close enough to my D7000s to me that I rather put the money towards another headphone.
 
Good opportunity to pick these up at a lower than store price if you are interested. 
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 11:33 AM Post #775 of 1,588
Quote:
You probably mean DT990? THEY are not just sparkling in positive way they often harsh to unacceptable level while D7000 and D600 have it just right. I would agree that D5000 may be too bright for some since they are brighter than D7000 but this could be fixed with EQ while it's not the case with DT990 but i chose to keep D7000 as better all rounder but If I would have to buy headphones now and wouldn't able to find or afford D7000 D600 would be fine for me

Yup, that's what I meant. Ty!
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:14 PM Post #776 of 1,588
You know whats sad.... is that by the looks of it those poor engineers really did work very hard to make the best of a crap situation, there are soo many tweaks done to that housing to get it sounding "right"
 
Its actually a shame the inside of the cups looks so cheap, and the shape/style of the headphone dictated the sound. if they allowed those engineers to dictate the shape of the headphone I feel we may have a rather different story here.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:49 PM Post #777 of 1,588
Quote:
[size=13.0pt]I recently purchased the D7100 with the 20% coupon from Headphone Solutions.  I thought this was a great deal until reading a barrage of head-fi posts on Denon’s new offering.  How quickly buyer’s remorse can set in.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]However, my impressions over the last 3-4 days have actually been quite favorable despite disparaging measurements.  I know that may not be a popular opinion…it is still early and I am not a technical listener by any stretch.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]As background, I have owned the Ultrasone 780's, Denon 2k's, RS1's (twice), T1's, and currently have the HD800's, which I have come to really enjoy.  [/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]I mention this because the first time I put on the 7100’s I was blown away by the bass and not in a good away.  It seemed too much.  I think my progression in headphones had something to do with this.  However, my ears have since “adjusted” as the added low-end weight seems to work well for my older rock recordings that were unlistenable with the HD800’s. [/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]Additionally, I agree with Mad Dude that the 7100’s are fairly open for a closed set of headphones.  Despite the copious low-end (compared to the HD800’s), the instrument separation seems excellent.  Listening to James Taylor’s “That’s Why I’m here” Taylor’s voice seems to jump out front and center with a nice pleasing bass line pumping in to support.  I can clearly articulate each instrument.  It’s a nice listen.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]I am most pleased with the D7100’s articulation of hard rock, my favorite genre.  Megadeth’s “Tornado of Souls” opening palm mute riff just oozes aggression.  Love the guitar crunch with the 7100’s.  I am a fan so far. [/size]


I am encouraged to read your impression.  If the D600 is any indication, judgement seems to be much harsher on the new Denons based on measurements vs. overall listening experience.  While not top of class, I found them to have an overall pleasing and enjoyable sound.  Also, the bass settled down with burn-in.  Ironically, I was looking for punchier, deeper bass, so I returned them.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:53 PM Post #778 of 1,588
Quote:
[size=13.0pt]I recently purchased the D7100 with the 20% coupon from Headphone Solutions.  I thought this was a great deal until reading a barrage of head-fi posts on Denon’s new offering.  How quickly buyer’s remorse can set in.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]However, my impressions over the last 3-4 days have actually been quite favorable despite disparaging measurements.  I know that may not be a popular opinion…it is still early and I am not a technical listener by any stretch.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]As background, I have owned the Ultrasone 780's, Denon 2k's, RS1's (twice), T1's, and currently have the HD800's, which I have come to really enjoy.  [/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]I mention this because the first time I put on the 7100’s I was blown away by the bass and not in a good away.  It seemed too much.  I think my progression in headphones had something to do with this.  However, my ears have since “adjusted” as the added low-end weight seems to work well for my older rock recordings that were unlistenable with the HD800’s. [/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]Additionally, I agree with Mad Dude that the 7100’s are fairly open for a closed set of headphones.  Despite the copious low-end (compared to the HD800’s), the instrument separation seems excellent.  Listening to James Taylor’s “That’s Why I’m here” Taylor’s voice seems to jump out front and center with a nice pleasing bass line pumping in to support.  I can clearly articulate each instrument.  It’s a nice listen.[/size]
 
[size=13.0pt]I am most pleased with the D7100’s articulation of hard rock, my favorite genre.  Megadeth’s “Tornado of Souls” opening palm mute riff just oozes aggression.  Love the guitar crunch with the 7100’s.  I am a fan so far. [/size]

 
I had the exact experience with the D5000. After listening to HE400 for a couple weeks prior, my brand new D5000 arrived. I gave them a go and was immediately wondering what I got myself into. The bass seemed just overwhelming and I boxed them up the same day with intentions to send them back. I knew they were being discontinued and really didn't want to do that, so I started burning them in with pink noise, followed by some critical listening with mainly RUSH. After I understood what I was really hearing, I was completely blown away. And they just kept getting better with more time on them.
 
The HE400 may very well be more balanced, but the D5000 gave me the sense of listening to live music. The low end is replicated beautifully, I haven't owned a set of phones with better reproduction of rock drumming throughout the entire spectrum than I get with D5000. They are true to what real drums sound like, especially the kick and floor toms. They also sound closest to my finely tuned speaker/sub-woofer system. Detail retrieval is top notch. Highs and mids are just great. I am extremely happy with the Denon's. I love my HE400 too but I give the edge to the D5K for my music tastes.
 
I do find that warming my ears and gear up for more than a half hour really helps with critical listening. And immediate switching of phones is a disaster. Going from HE400 to D5K within minutes or vise versa always yields a disastrous result for the replacement can. Phones really need to be synched up well with the brain. I need about a half hour of downtime between phones for a better experience.
 
All that said, I have been eying the D600's but would only consider purchasing it if performs at least as good as the D5K. I don't care at all about the looks, just want them to be comfy and sound great. Really looking forward to a detailed comparison between the two.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 12:57 PM Post #779 of 1,588
Part of why the Sony R10 sounds as amazing as it does (or did before any wear over time) is due to its MASSIVE earcups that were shaped in a very specific way. This allowed it to have a concert-hall type of presentation and enhanced timbre without being an open design. Looking at the cups on the D7100, I'm having a hard time imagining how they'd sound remotely spacious or acoustically satisfying.
 
They look kind of pathetic, tbh.
 
Aug 30, 2012 at 1:05 PM Post #780 of 1,588
Quote:
 
I had the exact experience with the D5000. After listening to HE400 for a couple weeks prior, my brand new D5000 arrived. I gave them a go and was immediately wondering what I got myself into. The bass seemed just overwhelming and I boxed them up the same day with intentions to send them back. I knew they were being discontinued and really didn't want to do that, so I started burning them in with pink noise, followed by some critical listening with mainly RUSH. After I understood what I was really hearing, I was completely blown away. And they just kept getting better with more time on them.
 
The HE400 may very well be more balanced, but the D5000 gave me the sense of listening to live music. The low end is replicated beautifully, I haven't owned a set of phones with better reproduction of rock drumming throughout the entire spectrum than I get with D5000. They are true to what real drums sound like, especially the kick and floor toms. They also sound closest to my finely tuned speaker/sub-woofer system. Detail retrieval is top notch. Highs and mids are just great. I am extremely happy with the Denon's. I love my HE400 too but I give the edge to the D5K for my music tastes.
 
I do find that warming my ears and gear up for more than a half hour really helps with critical listening. And immediate switching of phones is a disaster. Going from HE400 to D5K within minutes or vise versa always yields a disastrous result for the replacement can. Phones really need to be synched up well with the brain. I need about a half hour of downtime between phones for a better experience.
 
All that said, I have been eying the D600's but would only consider purchasing it if performs at least as good as the D5K. I don't care at all about the looks, just want them to be comfy and sound great. Really looking forward to a detailed comparison between the two.


Funny that you mentioned Rush.  I never heard them sound as good as with the D600, especially vocals from Geddy Lee.
 

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