[raoultrifan]

Hope they fix the noise issues with sensitive iems, and also the sound mirroring issue that is affecting some of the new Fun amps.
Is this replacing the conductor series? I would be nice if they could send a test unit to a reviewer, before the pre-order pricing is over, due to some of the issues with the newer units.

It was an incompatibility with IEMs on the V1.6 of PLAY, but with V2.1 and forward there was no audible noise on IEMs, at least not on my 16 Ohms/100dB SPL IEMs. Also, my FUN had no noise issue with none of my cans.
I don't think this is a Conductor replacement, but I'm sure it will sound very good. After all, the output stage would be similar with Conductor, same output transistors and Class-A, just less output power. Also, today's DAC chips are measuring so well that differences are barely to none audible by most "humans", at least if impulse response looks about the same (similar roll-off filters).

The website is odd, as I can't figure why the DAC/pre SWING (retail $699) is more expensive than the DAC/AMP/pre PlayMate (retail $649)?
Does the Swing have the 9038 pro inside or something?
I hope Burson has a rep that give some details before the pre order sale ends.

From my understandgin 4 x dual opamps should be inside PLAYMATE and 2 x duals + 2 x singls inside SWING; you could just purchase the basic version and add the opamps in the same basket if this makes it cheaper. BTW, why are you looking to that price column anyway? I was always looking to the PRE-ORDER PRICE column which is 319 USD for any of the two units. Unless you want to buy V6 opamps and that makes it 519 USD for PLAYMATE vs 599 USD for SWING.

That still means there must be something inside the Swing that allow for the equal retail cost, even though it does NOT have the amp included.

It's clearly a different schematic inside and one more PSU inside: 6 MCPS inside SWING instead of 5 MCPS for the PLAYMATE. Also, additional digital inputs means additional production costs for sure...so, I'm curious how the 2 boards look like, then it should be easy to spot and compare the differences later.

 

[raoultrifan]

[...] and also the sound mirroring issue that is affecting some of the new Fun amps.
[...].

What would be the mirroring issue, please? Was this covered into the FUN's thread?

 

[raoultrifan]

I've been using the Burson CV2+ for quite some time. I think you guys will enjoy this new amp, especially with the new chip. Mine is still using the old ESS9018 chip and it sounds clean and good.

ESS claims a small reduction in 2nd and 3rd harmonics, but that's on the measurement part, because what's below -80dB it's hard to impossible for us, "humans", to actually perceive the differences. We usually perceive the background noise, the roll-off trebles or bass, channel imbalance (if higher than +/-0.25dB) and perhaps crosstalk.

I did myself some tests on the audiocheck.net and found my ears as being still respectable, because I was able to sense +/-0.5dB differences in sound and also dynamics up to below -72dB (-66dB on studio monitors and between -72dB and -78dB on headphones, depending on the headset used), which is quite OK for me. Also, audiogram was fine too, see attached. This is why I wrote on the previous post that usually audio differences below -80dB should not be perceived by our ears.

 

[omniweltall]

ESS claims a small reduction in 2nd and 3rd harmonics, but that's on the measurement part, because what's below -80dB it's hard to impossible for us, "humans", to actually perceive the differences. We usually perceive the background noise, the roll-off trebles or bass, channel imbalance (if higher than +/-0.25dB) and perhaps crosstalk.

I did myself some tests on the audiocheck.net and found my ears as being still respectable, because I was able to sense +/-0.5dB differences in sound and also dynamics up to below -72dB (-66dB on studio monitors and between -72dB and -78dB on headphones, depending on the headset used), which is quite OK for me. Also, audiogram was fine too, see attached. This is why I wrote on the previous post that usually audio differences below -80dB should not be perceived by our ears.

Nice result, man!

 

[newtophones07]

It was an incompatibility with IEMs on the V1.6 of PLAY, but with V2.1 and forward there was no audible noise on IEMs, at least not on my 16 Ohms/100dB SPL IEMs. Also, my FUN had no noise issue with none of my cans.
I don't think this is a Conductor replacement, but I'm sure it will sound very good. After all, the output stage would be similar with Conductor, same output transistors and Class-A, just less output power. Also, today's DAC chips are measuring so well that differences are barely to none audible by most "humans", at least if impulse response looks about the same (similar roll-off filters).



From my understandgin 4 x dual opamps should be inside PLAYMATE and 2 x duals + 2 x singls inside SWING; you could just purchase the basic version and add the opamps in the same basket if this makes it cheaper. BTW, why are you looking to that price column anyway? I was always looking to the PRE-ORDER PRICE column which is 319 USD for any of the two units. Unless you want to buy V6 opamps and that makes it 519 USD for PLAYMATE vs 599 USD for SWING.


It's clearly a different schematic inside and one more PSU inside: 6 MCPS inside SWING instead of 5 MCPS for the PLAYMATE. Also, additional digital inputs means additional production costs for sure...so, I'm curious how the 2 boards look like, then it should be easy to spot and compare the differences later.

Thanks for writing all of that, it helps

 

[Eiffel]

That still means there must be something inside the Swing that allow for the equal retail cost, even though it does NOT have the amp included.

Their webmaster is a bit lazy.
There is a difference if you read the description in the pictures - it has an extra power stage.
Also if you look at his back it has some extra input.

About the price - the Fun and Bang have also a bigger price than buying the basic version and V6 OP-AMP's separated. So if you don't need remote you better goes this way.
They said they do that to support their resellers.

 

[raoultrifan]

Specs updated: 10 times less distortions, 4 times lower output impedance.

 

[almo89]

I've been waiting for Emotiva to release their DC-2 DAC for so long now, but they have no news or updates. I might just pick this one up instead.

 

[raoultrifan]

DC-2 announced price was 699 USD in US, so much higher then SWING. Also, it's AKM vs. ESS...in case ti matters.

 

[Eiffel]

After some experiments I made yesterday with a Topping D10, I think Swing can be able to drive some non power hungry headphones by itself - no Amp needed.
The D10 can drive my new 1990Pro 250ohms without a hassle. Unfortunately it doesn't have volume knob, but volume can be set directly on the ESS chip from the driver control panel. I had to set volume at -40 for the DT1990. I also changed his LPF OP-AM with a V6 classic ( open case as V6 is to big to put back the cover ) and it sound now pretty much like the Play. I would like some V6i to be created

 

[DjBobby]

After some experiments I made yesterday with a Topping D10, I think Swing can be able to drive some non power hungry headphones by itself - no Amp needed.
The D10 can drive my new 1990Pro 250ohms without a hassle. Unfortunately it doesn't have volume knob, but volume can be set directly on the ESS chip from the driver control panel. I had to set volume at -40 for the DT1990. I also changed his LPF OP-AM with a V6 classic ( open case as V6 is to big to put back the cover ) and it sound now pretty much like the Play. I would like some V6i to be created

How does a D10 sounds compared to the Play, since they use the same chip?

 

[raoultrifan]

OPA2132 and SS V6 are not meant to drive headphones, so both opamps will feel much better when driving loads of 2 KOhms or more. Years ago it was a thread about ODAC and same recommendation should apply to D10, SWING a.s.o.: an opamp used in output buffer stage that was not designed to drive low-impedance loads might sound OK when driving headphones, but it’s not recommend to be used like that. Hence, an output buffer will be needed (e.g.: LME49720 & LME4960) or, of course, a headphone amplifier.

 

[Eiffel]

Yes, I know, probably when using even lower impedance than my headphones sound may be worst.
However they seems to work well. It's not the first time I did this. Some small players use op-amps as "final" stage. I saw few years ago even the 2134 used like that in a Chinese player.
The V6 may perform even better since they are discrete op-amps.
The LPF is also a buffer usually.

How does a D10 sounds compared to the Play, since they use the same chip?

About 90% same if I can use percentages ( very subjective ). I think that using same op-amp's you may get same sound from it, but only buffer/LPF can be changed in D10. With V6 Classic it's even more close to the Play with Classics in it. However it seems more linear/neutral than Play. Less warm.

 

[ACDOAN]

Just asked Burson some questions about the Swing and will share the info here.

The Swing only has a single dac chip but the rest of the circuitry is dual monaural like the Fun, no XLR outputs of course so its not true balanced, but dual monaural setup is always good to see.

The Swing has a Mic input in the back that matches up with the mic pass-through on the rear of the Fun so you can amp your microphone up like with the Play.

The Swing will include the same accessories as the play does. The Fun/Swing stack should offer superior performance over the Playmate or Play. Of course that stack is significantly more expensive so value seekers should go for the new Playmate instead.

I have the Fun and I have been very pleased with the SQ, power reserved ( headroom). I have been waiting for a DAC with optical and coaxial to complete my Fun/ Swing Stack. Yeah, I do listen to my old CDs collection as well as a few SACD. Computer audio is done with another application from another manufacture in the US.

 

[bowei006]

Seems interesting, looks to be the same internal DAC as their previous products.

Big claims on the highest spec DAC but then again, they just claiming it from a 'technical' perspective