New, Burson Playmate 9038 DAC, 2Wpc HeadAmp, Preamp, Changeable opamps.
post-14995376
Post #406 of 594

jarza

New Head-Fier
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
27
Reaction score
9
Location
Finland
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Location
Finland
Posts
27
Likes
9
Got my new Playmate about two weeks ago and overall I´m happy with it. Before I got Play and these new improvements are very welcome and nice. This was basic version but before I have Play Vivid so put those op-amps in Playmate and ordered one Vivid more. Background on my headphones are now totally silent and I like that bit "relaxed" sound compared to Play (my opinion) but there is something on treble that is off vs Play. I think Play has more pronounced treble. Playmate´s treble is not bad I´m not saying that but there could be bit more that somehow. Offcourse this is matter of opinion. I have HD650 headphones and it should be good match for this headphone amp with Vivid op-amps. Maybe gonna try coin mod on my HD650 to get more treble come out. I recommend this unit for sure :)
 
     Share This Post       
post-14995390
Post #407 of 594

DjBobby

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
941
Reaction score
338
Location
Land of Chocolate and Watches
Joined
May 26, 2015
Location
Land of Chocolate and Watches
Posts
941
Likes
338
Got my new Playmate about two weeks ago and overall I´m happy with it. Before I got Play and these new improvements are very welcome and nice. This was basic version but before I have Play Vivid so put those op-amps in Playmate and ordered one Vivid more. Background on my headphones are now totally silent and I like that bit "relaxed" sound compared to Play (my opinion) but there is something on treble that is off vs Play. I think Play has more pronounced treble. Playmate´s treble is not bad I´m not saying that but there could be bit more that somehow. Offcourse this is matter of opinion. I have HD650 headphones and it should be good match for this headphone amp with Vivid op-amps. Maybe gonna try coin mod on my HD650 to get more treble come out. I recommend this unit for sure :)
Have you switched the de-emphasis to off? Default is on and it cuts the treble massively.
Also in order to compare better the Playmate vs the Play, try to change the filter settings on the Playmate to LP Fast, because that's the filter that the Play is using by default.
 
     Share This Post       
post-14995394
Post #408 of 594

jarza

New Head-Fier
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
27
Reaction score
9
Location
Finland
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Location
Finland
Posts
27
Likes
9
@DjBobby Thanks. Yes de-emphasis is off. My unit actually come it off when I was checking the menu options. Also newest firmware was applied. I was testing different filter setting but it was suddle differences between modes but good to know that LP fast is same as Play filter mode. Now I use AP fast that was default. Also liked MP fast a bit
 
     Share This Post       
post-14995564
Post #409 of 594

DjBobby

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
941
Reaction score
338
Location
Land of Chocolate and Watches
Joined
May 26, 2015
Location
Land of Chocolate and Watches
Posts
941
Likes
338
@DjBobby Thanks. Yes de-emphasis is off. My unit actually come it off when I was checking the menu options. Also newest firmware was applied. I was testing different filter setting but it was suddle differences between modes but good to know that LP fast is same as Play filter mode. Now I use AP fast that was default. Also liked MP fast a bit
I have or had previously several dacs with ES9018K2M and ES9038Q2M dac chips, as used in the Play and the Playmate. Overall impression was that the newer ES9038 sounds smoother and warmer, with less crispy highs. When experimenting with the upsampling in the Audirvana, I got very similar impression with the older ES9018. Once upsampled, the sound got smoother and the treble less edgy. I suspect that the ES9038 uses by default much higher internal umpsampling, something which all modern dacs, except the NOS, nowadays do. The Chord uses it to the extreme in all their dacs, including the Mojo. It is possible that the ESS tech applied the philosophy in their newer dac chips, which would explain different treble rendering.
 
     Share This Post       
post-14995651
Post #410 of 594

alota

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
3,004
Reaction score
412
Location
PORTUGAL
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Location
PORTUGAL
Posts
3,004
Likes
412
I have or had previously several dacs with ES9018K2M and ES9038Q2M dac chips, as used in the Play and the Playmate. Overall impression was that the newer ES9038 sounds smoother and warmer, with less crispy highs. When experimenting with the upsampling in the Audirvana, I got very similar impression with the older ES9018. Once upsampled, the sound got smoother and the treble less edgy. I suspect that the ES9038 uses by default much higher internal umpsampling, something which all modern dacs, except the NOS, nowadays do. The Chord uses it to the extreme in all their dacs, including the Mojo. It is possible that the ESS tech applied the philosophy in their newer dac chips, which would explain different treble rendering.
good point. i had mojo and hugo and about ess products i have the 9028(mobile)in my lg v30 and the 9038 in playmate. i read several time that ess chip sounds digital and unnatural. i had never tried ladder dac but i had dacs with several chip from wolfson to akm, etc. Honestly i like the sound of ess chip
 
     Share This Post       
post-15000092
Post #411 of 594

LexBurson

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
Bowie MD
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Location
Bowie MD
Posts
8
Likes
1
Frequency response, based on the filter setting chosen:


MP FAST - Emphasis ON vs. MS FAST - Emphasis OFF



LP SLOW vs. LP FAST



BRICKWALL vs. CMFR



RESERVED vs. AP FAST



MP SLOW

Frequency response, based on the filter setting chosen:

LP-FAST vs. LP-SLOW



MP-FAST vs. MP-SLOW



AP-FAST vs. RESERVED



CMFR vs. BRICKWALL
The above measurements were done on PLAYMATE EVEREST (SS V6 Classics in I/V stage and SS V6 Vivid in LPF & Voltage-Gain) and are intended to help everyone of us to better choose the correct filter setting.

Please notice that the default PLAYMATE setting for EMPHASIS is ON and, at least in my case, this means trebles roll-off, so not quite a flat frequencies response, but probably a good pair with bright headphones (in my case Grado SR60i, but not only this one). Given that most people expects to get an out of the box DAC that measures flat and sounds neutral, I will contact manufacturer to change the default EMPHASIS to OFF instead of ON, for those of us that don't want to ever touch the rotary knob controller (if any). Personally I recommend this setting to stay OFF.

Also, when choosing the correct digital filter setting, bear in mind that pre-ringing does not exists out there in the nature, but post-ringing does. Of course, choosing the perfect digital filter setting, based on pre/post ringing and frequency response is a per individual setting and may not be debated here, but I found the MP-FAST as having a better freq. response with less pre-ringing and MP-SLOW as having no pre-ringing, but not perfectly flat response, so for my music I'll probably work with these two settings mostly.

P.S.: RESERVED seems pretty similar with the MP-FAST to me, just freq. response is somehow different, so quite similar digital filter setting after all.
Ive been wondering about these filters. (I bought a Burson Swing basic model DAC to use with another headphone amp and to send a signal to small powered A2+ desktop speakers from Audio Engine. Wow the Burson DAC makes the A2+ speakers sing. I had a damn sound stage on my desk listening to .) Anyway, I get the SWING and Im working through the MICROSCOPIC screen menu and realizing none of this is explained in the manual. They use these worthless filters which they don't even bother to explain in the manual. WTH? The only filter that makes a noticeable change is EMPHASIS which Burson encourages you leave OFF.

Its kinda mickey mouse. Its as if they stopped half way through the design process and gave up. I guess that's what happens when you buy someone else's chip?
 
     Share This Post       
post-15000713
Post #412 of 594

raoultrifan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,742
Reaction score
751
Location
Iasi, ROMANIA
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Location
Iasi, ROMANIA
Posts
1,742
Likes
751
Age
44
     Share This Post       
post-15000867
Post #413 of 594

LexBurson

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
Bowie MD
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Location
Bowie MD
Posts
8
Likes
1
Why wouldnt they need to explain their product to their end user? Why put in filters that have no effect? I've used other stand alone DACS before but I still dont know what the difference between these filter options for this chip is nor do the explanations in the technical sheets provide much assistance.

Its just lazy design and implementation on the part of Burson.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15001186
Post #414 of 594

raoultrifan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,742
Reaction score
751
Location
Iasi, ROMANIA
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Location
Iasi, ROMANIA
Posts
1,742
Likes
751
Age
44
@LexBurson I guess you also choose your username based on your frustration with Burson, which is not OK, but it's your choice

If you're not pleased with SWING's datasheet from here https://drive.google.com/file/d/10sz2gMwyesnSJEU1CCjgF7-JtxIUyPAR/view, then I strongly suggest you to contact BURSON if you have any complains.

Instead, if you really want to learn about digital filter, then please read my above posts and also find Head-Fi dedicated thread about what each filter does to the output sound.

Meanwhile, feel free to read the below too:
- http://file2.dzsc.com/product/18/05/25/829029_170233543.pdf - ESS datasheet, of course, nothing about how each filter sounds, and remember: this is chip manufacturer's datasheet!
- http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt375/slyt375.pdf - TI has a very good application note about digital filters, worth a read
- https://www.audiostream.com/content...ed-todays-audio-dacs-resonessence-labs-tech-3 - how Resonance Lab explains the digital filters from it's flagship 6000 USD DAC
- http://cv.cs.nthu.edu.tw/upload/courses/14/uploads/CS3570_Chapter5_part2.pdf - it shows us that behind every digital filter (FIR) there's pure math and nothing else.

So it's all about pre-ringing, post-ringing and frequency linearity, but if you or any other head-fier will be able or not to differentiate the output sound between these filters it's a different topic.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15001409
Post #415 of 594

LexBurson

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
8
Reaction score
1
Location
Bowie MD
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Location
Bowie MD
Posts
8
Likes
1
Don't get your panties ruffled. Its all in fun.

Alex at Burson said the only filter worth changing is EMPHASIS to OFF. If that's the case, I say, why even include them?
 
     Share This Post       
post-15001441
Post #416 of 594

Fasterball

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
216
Reaction score
63
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Posts
216
Likes
63
Don't get your panties ruffled. Its all in fun.

Alex at Burson said the only filter worth changing is EMPHASIS to OFF. If that's the case, I say, why even include them?
You seem trollish @LexBurson. @raoultrifan gave you a well thought out and we'll reasoned response that took time to compose and you tell him/her not to get the panties ruffled. That's pretty disrespectful. Let's keep it above board.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: raoultrifan
post-15002469
Post #417 of 594

Postmodum

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
29
Reaction score
4
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Posts
29
Likes
4
I upgraded mine without any issues on windows 10 and mine is a preorder unit.

I would recommend everyone unplug the playmate and then remove all xmos drivers from your pc before trying to upgrade.

You need to go into device manager and click show hidden/disconnected devices. Then go to sound and audio devices and remove every instance of xmos drivers you find. To be extra thorough also remove the usbpnp device(that is the microphone for the playmate)

After you have removed everything restart pc, and then download the Feb 14 xmos driver and the firmware update from Burson. Then install the Feb 14 xmos driver and connect your playmate again. It should work then at least it did for me.
Same here, updated it without any issues.
One thing that i was not able to, that was using the windows speaker volume, now works. Other than that, everything working smoothly.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15002591
Post #418 of 594

alota

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
3,004
Reaction score
412
Location
PORTUGAL
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Location
PORTUGAL
Posts
3,004
Likes
412
if i understand correct, the firmware upgrade is not necessary for android, right?
 
     Share This Post       
post-15006253
Post #420 of 594

escalibur

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
137
Reaction score
89
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Posts
137
Likes
89
Courier just brought me something to 'play' with... :) More to follow...

 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top