[ardilla]

Also I must admit coming from speaker system and using all balanced system I do not really understand the purpose of balanced HP cable. I have to read about it.

In speaker systems it is balanced all the way up to amp but speaker cables, which one would think would be equivalent of HP cable are no longer balanced as there is no electronics on speaker side that would be required to have use for balanced signal. Does this mean that in HPs there is still some processing of signal happening at driver level?

As I said I have to read about it.

Unbalanced headphone cables share ground and only need 3 wires (if they split the ground in the headphone for the two drivers of course). It is the same with speakers, but they always use 4 wires anyway.

 

[sebna]

Unbalanced headphone cables share ground and only need 3 wires (if they split the ground in the headphone for the two drivers of course). It is the same with speakers, but they always use 4 wires anyway.

Ahh I see. So it is not really balanced cable just an upgraded cable. That is all.

 

[ardilla]

Ahh I see. So it is not really balanced cable just an upgraded cable. That is all.

Not really sure if that was what I was trying to say. A balanced cable has 4 wires: L+, L-, R+ and R-. An unbalanced cable only needs 3 wires: R signal, L signal and (shared) ground. But many headphone cables use 4 wires all the way and join the ground at the TRS plug (which has three connectors L, R and shared ground) Thus you can cut off the TRS and make a balanced cable with a XLR-4 (or the old standard dual XLR-3). Many enthusiasts did this with the old T1 mk1 cable. But you cannot make a cable with 3 wires balanced without damaging your amp, of course.
In other words, you need a balanced cable to enjoy a balanced amps full potential.

 

[Sonic Defender]

It is not about distortion but about electrical noise (unless you mean distortion caused by electrical noise but my understanding of word distortion would be reserved for different group of problems in the signal path).

Such shame you just cannot pop-in to me and have a listen for yourself. The difference is very apparent and of high caliber. I am talking about my speaker system. If you would be trying to achieve same increase in quality in purely SE system it would cost you thousands of dollars in upgrades in compare to simply switching from SE path to balanced on my system. But then it also depends on quality of the system, acoustics of the room, and so on (not so much on hearing as differences are very apparent in the right setup).

Thanks mate, would be fun to spend some time listening to music with another head-fier. If only the pop-in was that easy. If it isn't something that you prefer to keep private what part of the world do you live in? I know that is private for many people so feel free to not answer, I'm just always curious where people are in the world.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Not really sure if that was what I was trying to say. A balanced cable has 4 wires: L+, L-, R+ and R-. An unbalanced cable only needs 3 wires: R signal, L signal and (shared) ground. But many headphone cables use 4 wires all the way and join the ground at the TRS plug (which has three connectors L, R and shared ground) Thus you can cut off the TRS and make a balanced cable with a XLR-4 (or the old standard dual XLR-3). Many enthusiasts did this with the old T1 mk1 cable. But you cannot make a cable with 3 wires balanced without damaging your amp, of course.
In other words, you need a balanced cable to enjoy a balanced amps full potential.

Indeed, that is why when I had Trevor at Norne Audio make me a speaker tap cable for my NAD M3 he had to take into account the common ground. If I were to use this cable on a truly balanced amp bad things would happen!

 

[ardilla]

That depends, my NAD M3 is a dual mono design, but it isn't truly balanced as it uses a common ground.

Yup. All balanced amps are basically dual mono (but might share some basics like the main psu), but not all dual mono amps are balanced ,)

 

[ardilla]

If we talk about components with true balanced topology and also present at each step of audio chain (from dac -> pre -> amp) so from start to finish then there is no doubt of sonic benefits coming from it. Yes it was designed to battle signal degradation trough electrical noise pickup on longer cable runs but it does not mean it is not doing same excellent job (albeit on the lower scale depending on the environment) on shorter runs. This technology applies to any length of cables.

The way balanced signal works is that it rejects electrical noise from the audio signal by comparing signals from two different signal paths in balanced cable. But in order for technology to work there must be a comparison mechanism which rejects the noise. So for balanced HP cables to work, HPs themselves would have to have this mechanism incorporated in their housing. So my question is: is this the case? Because if not balanced HP cables do absolutely nothing (I am talking now only about this last piece of cable from Head Amp to HPs).

Now it is highly possible some HPs would have this mechanism built in (maybe it can be passive - I do not know) but if they would be able to fit it into HP then I guess they would also fit it into multi thousand speaker systems and they do not... so as I said I have to do a bit of reading about balanced HP cables

There is no differential signaling/noise reduction stuff going on between the amp and the headphone. Just the advantage of seperate grounds and a dual mono amp.

 

[sebna]

Thanks mate, would be fun to spend some time listening to music with another head-fier. If only the pop-in was that easy. If it isn't something that you prefer to keep private what part of the world do you live in? I know that is private for many people so feel free to not answer, I'm just always curious where people are in the world.

Not a secret. I am based in Dublin, Ireland, EU

 

[Sonic Defender]

Not a secret. I am based in Dublin, Ireland, EU

Awesome, hopefully I will be visiting the UK for 10 days this year and at least a few days will be in Ireland if at all possible.

 

[Music Path]

How good is scalling of the Beyer T1.2 balanced vs. single ended? I find single ended quite impressive btw. Good imaging.
Does someone has experience with Beyers own aftermarket XLR cable?

 

[sebna]

How good is scalling of the Beyer T1.2 balanced vs. single ended? I find single ended quite impressive btw. Good imaging.
Does someone has experience with Beyers own aftermarket XLR cable?

Read last few posts... if it is not too demanding of a task

 

[MarkF786]

One benefit of a balanced amp and cables is the avoidance of crosstalk due to the elimination of the common ground.

 

[adydula]

I have Beyer T1, 2nd gen, T90's, DT1350's and more...

I use theT1's with 60mw amps, 500 mw amps and battery powered (2x9voltdc) amps and they all do really well...

I use SS, OTL , non-OTL amps and its amazing how well these cans play with a wide variety of amps....

My guess with the Sony is that they will work ok, but possible really loud or high volume may not be attainable.

But unless you actually try or get some really good power out specs at these impedances you wont know until you try them.

Alex

Note: I went back a read one of my earlier posts where I found the Sony has 60mw at 16ohms...so this is probably not a good thing for the higher impedance Beyers..if it was 60mw at 600 ohms then it would work much better....

 

[gardibolt]

Looking at these seriously in the buydig deal. How do they pair with a Lyr 2?
I would be listening 99% to classical music; a fair amount of that being older recordings so it has to be at least a little forgiving.
As a reference point, my favorite headphones right now are the Elear and the HE-560.

 

[Slim1970]

Looking at these seriously in the buydig deal. How do they pair with a Lyr 2?
I would be listening 99% to classical music; a fair amount of that being older recordings so it has to be at least a little forgiving.
As a reference point, my favorite headphones right now are the Elear and the HE-560.

I would say jump on the deal. That's where I got my T1.2 LE's from and at that price they are totally worth it. The T1.2's are very musical headphones and they work very well with all music genres. I like them better than the HE-560's I used to own. But you are going to need a good amp to get the most out of them. They are a little harder to drive than the Elear's and equally as power hungry as the HE-560's you own.