[Toni-Mang]

The Firmwareupdate on the R8 is as easy as on the R2R-1...keep the 1 on the red line, and up…

 

[FredA]

Still no excess highs or edginess with v3a in os8 mode in 5 days. To me, it means the v3a, especially in os8 mode, is much less forgiving but utimately, by working on the transport, it can produce a quite phenomenal sound quality. The last 5 days have been the best 5 day sequence since i acquired the r-7 in July 2017. The worst night i encountered is the second one, when there was a little less life in the sound, but nothing severe. Maybe the break-in. Otherwise, i get the best depth and bass definition ever. And a black background.

The great news is you do not need to invest huge sums of money. Just a pi, a lps and a decent usb isolator and that’s it. Oh and a couple of decent usb cables. And a very good ddc or internal board like the f-1 or better. Ideally a second lps to feed the ddc. All in all, under 1k if you are ok with ebay.

Next step: i might get a matrix x-spdif2 as an upgrade to the f-1. Not sure but it seems like it is the best usb to spdif/i2s converter under 1k out there.

 

[Chopin75]

Still no excess highs or edginess with v3a in os8 mode in 5 days. To me, it means the v3a, especially in os8 mode, is much less forgiving but utimately, by working on the transport, it can produce a quite phenomenal sound quality. The last 5 days have been the best 5 day sequence since i acquired the r-7 in July 2017. The worst night i encountered is the second one, when there was a little less life in the sound, but nothing severe. Maybe the break-in. Otherwise, i get the best depth and bass definition ever. And a black background.

The great news is you do not need to invest huge sums of money. Just a pi, a lps and a decent usb isolator and that’s it. Oh and a couple of decent usb cables. And a very good ddc or internal board like the f-1 or better. Ideally a second lps to feed the ddc. All in all, under 1k if you are ok with ebay.

Next step: i might get a matrix x-spdif2 as an upgrade to the f-1. Not sure but it seems like it is the best usb to spdif/i2s converter under 1k out there.

Interesting the OS8x is less forgiving. I thought OS usually makes it more forgiving.
Are you able to play DSD (not upsampled) on the Raspberry ? DSD64 to 256? Thanks!

 

[FredA]

Interesting the OS8x is less forgiving. I thought OS usually makes it more forgiving.
Are you able to play DSD (not upsampled) on the Raspberry ? DSD64 to 256? Thanks!

Compared to nos, os8 is normally less forgiving. I am refering to the oversampling done by the r-7. Sw upsampling i tried tends to soften the sound, with a loss of information in the worst case. Not with the r-7’s.

Volumio, the sofware i use now, claims to support dsd in direct mode up to dsd512. With my singxer f-1, i can’t use the direct more as it is connected with just the standard i2s protocol. So i think volumio converts the signal to pcm on the fly as the f-1 is not recognized as playing dsd. Not sure but i get no popping noise switching to a dsd file. I suppose you can play dsd with certain ddcs, perhaps even with the f-1 using dop, somehow. I don’t care about dsd really so i haven’t looked into it.

 

[FredA]

You know, Kingwa always says power supply is the most important in any design. He is so right.

If you use a regular computer with a swiching supply (and fans on top of it), there you go, you have your weakest link right there. And also the one that will be the most affected by a polluted power grid. A conventional transformer filters out a lot of high frequencies in the first place, and it works both ways as it prevents, to a certain extent, your noisy device from contaminating the components plugged next by.

Aslo, it is important to note that the harder a computer works, the higher the generated noise is. So that’s where an os optimized for audio reproduction comes to play. And it matters for latency as well, having to make sure the data is fed in time to be sent by the usb controller.

 

[barbas]

No word from Kingwa on additional versions of V3 firmware. Last week he said the V3 changes were not trivial and he wanted to also perform listening tests.

He told me V3 IN4 Toslink should be ready by the end of this week.

 

[PLGA]

Hello Guys.
I own a new R8 and it sound wonderfull.

I also have to say that, eventhough the R8 isn't burned in yet (I think it will improve considerably in the next few hours), my former DAC, the R2R-2 provided me about 80 to 90% the sound of the R8 at half the cost! The R2R-2 is truly a bargain.

I listen to my music streaming Tidal with my Notebook, using a DH Labs USB cable going through a Wyred4sound USB Reclocker, my R8 has the USB board isolated and I also use the Audioquest Jitterbug as pasive filter (connected to another USB port of the computer). Is good to mention that (for me) the Jitterbug works fine. It's a subtle improvement, but noticeable.

Today I have a BEATIFUL sound, but as an "average" audiophile person, I'm always looking to improve the sound of my system and I've read that FredA says that having a dedicated OS in the computer could help and I would like to know how. Can anyone provide me more information about it? Which OS? Windows?

Today I use a Notebook with Intel i5 (not the fastest, but ok) with Windows 10 and I wouldn't want to change the way I listen to music because I like the simplicity of streaming Tidal with my PC and I use Dirac as Room Correction, wich I find to be a VERY GOOD tool to improve the sound response of your room. So, today I'm tied up to a Notebook for listening to music.
Any suggestions?

It's important to say that I am not into tech issues and sometimes I get lost in your tech threads.

Thank you!!

Pedro

By the way: my R8 has the V3 A firmware and I'm using OSx4 as suggested by some of you in this thread. I will compare it to the NOS modes and the other OS modes and I will post my opinion latter on.

 

[FredA]

Hi Pedro. Congrats!

I use the Volumio OS on a raspberry pi, as a standalone player.

Volumio is an os that can only do music playback. A way to improve things for you would be to get a pi and lps like i did and have the pi work as upnp node in Volumio. If Tidal supports streaming to such a node, you are probably good for a sound improvment. With that config, the pi is connected to the dac and both the pi and the pc are connected to you LAN.

I am not 100% sure how good this configuration would sound however. I haven’t tried it and i alsoI read that with the latest rasberry pi, the usb ports can loose packets when the ethernet is used at peak level. So ideally, you would use ssh to modify a linux config file (Volumio is based on raspbian linux) to reduce the ethernet speed to 10/100. Or you can do like @DACLadder and buy a Allo Usbridge. The big plus of the usbridge is it includes the same usb cleanup feature as your w4s has. You probably would not need it anymore, nor the jitterbug. With a raspberry pi however, it would be a good idea to keep both in service.

The downside of those small computers and associated OS is that they are not as user friendly as other solutions. But sound quality is improved.

Another avenue, simpler one, is to get an audiphile pci usb card for you pc.

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

Hello Guys.
I own a new R8 and it sound wonderfull.

I also have to say that, eventhough the R8 isn't burned in yet (I think it will improve considerably in the next few hours), my former DAC, the R2R-2 provided me about 80 to 90% the sound of the R8 at half the cost! The R2R-2 is truly a bargain.

I listen to my music streaming Tidal with my Notebook, using a DH Labs USB cable going through a Wyred4sound USB Reclocker, my R8 has the USB board isolated and I also use the Audioquest Jitterbug as pasive filter (connected to another USB port of the computer). Is good to mention that (for me) the Jitterbug works fine. It's a subtle improvement, but noticeable.

Today I have a BEATIFUL sound, but as an "average" audiophile person, I'm always looking to improve the sound of my system and I've read that FredA says that having a dedicated OS in the computer could help and I would like to know how. Can anyone provide me more information about it? Which OS? Windows?

Today I use a Notebook with Intel i5 (not the fastest, but ok) with Windows 10 and I wouldn't want to change the way I listen to music because I like the simplicity of streaming Tidal with my PC and I use Dirac as Room Correction, wich I find to be a VERY GOOD tool to improve the sound response of your room. So, today I'm tied up to a Notebook for listening to music.
Any suggestions?

It's important to say that I am not into tech issues and sometimes I get lost in your tech threads.

Thank you!!

Pedro

By the way: my R8 has the V3 A firmware and I'm using OSx4 as suggested by some of you in this thread. I will compare it to the NOS modes and the other OS modes and I will post my opinion latter on.

Congratulations on the R-8! I am anxiously awaiting mine.

Fred can clarify exactly what he meant by a dedicated OS, I could not find that post and you did not quote it. Typically those would be found in ready-to-use boxes and are custom coded by the manufacturers to their specifications. The operating systems (Linux, OSX, Windows etc. and all their variants) that you would use yourself can be made to work very well for audio with other software, but they are not specifically designed for audio and only audio. So, the short answer is that you usually can't and probably would not want to use or buy a custom(ized) OS on its own. You would buy the product that already uses the custom(ized) OS. Most people either buy a ready to use box or use readily available software that offers "tweaks" to your current current OS. If you want to take it a bit further, you can build your own device from parts and install software.

Example of a dedicated player with a custom(ized) OS (the OS really isn't changed much I'd imagine - it's the software running atop the OS) - https://www.psaudio.com/directstream-dac/ PS Audio calls theirs "Redcloud"

Example of software for OSX / Windows that "optimizes" for playback and can do some other neat stuff - Audirvana, JRiver, Roon, Rune, HQPlayer etc. etc. etc.

Example of build your own - RasPi + HiFiBerry DAC (or your choice) running MoOde or Volumio (or whatever) => I2S (or your choice) => R-8

The possibilities are endless, but it's important to know that only the first and last really has any kind of custom(ized) OS. The rest use common OSs and have audio software running on top.

I'd recommend downloading some free trials of software for your current machine and see if you like it before buying new streaming players and/or building your own. Some people say they like get better SQ from other players than through the Tidal desktop app (if that's what you're using). I don't get into that type of discussion.

Play and have fun!

I hope that makes sense and helps.

[Edited to Add - Looks like Fred and I were typing at the same time...] He clarifies what he meant much better than I.

 

[DACLadder]

Like @FredA with RPi I am experimenting with the Allo Usbridge instead of using a dedicated PC. With Fred's help got the Usbridge working but had to stop for the US Thanksgiving holiday. I need to also order a good +5V power supply and then I can compare with Singxer SU-1 on HDMI I2S. So a few more weeks.

I can't get the Usbridge running Volumio to work with DSD. But using DietPi operating system Roon works very well with whatever I can throw at it - DSD, upsampling, 384kHz, etc.

The Usbridge is very affordable and hope it works out as I do not ever what to purchase another PC or large computer. The Usbridge is not so much plug-'n-play but more of a tweaker's delite. It has been both fun and frustrating as explicit documentation does not exist for each use case. And never would have made progress without help!! Yeah Fred!

 

[FredA]

Like @FredA with RPi I am experimenting with the Allo Usbridge instead of using a dedicated PC. With Fred's help got the Usbridge working but had to stop for the US Thanksgiving holiday. I need to also order a good +5V power supply and then I can compare with Singxer SU-1 on HDMI I2S. So a few more weeks.

I can't get the Usbridge running Volumio to work with DSD. But using DietPi operating system Roon works very well with whatever I can throw at it - DSD, upsampling, 384kHz, etc.

The Usbridge is very affordable and hope it works out as I do not ever what to purchase another PC or large computer. The Usbridge is not so much plug-'n-play but more of a tweaker's delite. It has been both fun and frustrating as explicit documentation does not exist for each use case. And never would have made progress without help!! Yeah Fred!

Can’t believe the sound quality again tonight. The r-7 can play bass absolutely perfectly. I am really talking quality, not quantity. You can hear every intonation of it and all the way down. And the treble is clean, and easy on the ears, with lots of micro-informations that make the performance very involving.

For perfect sound (and i am not saying i am there yet but real close), you need a perfect transport.

 

[FredA]

And Scott, i am really interested to know after the Holiday season which ddc your prefer combined to the usbridge, as i imagine you will give the su-1 a try. I really enjoy the f-1 fed by a high-quality lps i took on ebay, but i am always curious.

 

[DACLadder]

And Scott, i am really interested to know after the Holiday season which ddc your prefer combined to the usbridge, as i imagine you will give the su-1 a try. I really enjoy the f-1 fed by a high-quality lps i took on ebay, but i am always curious.

It will be a fair comparison. Usbridge feeding the internal Singxer F1 on IN6. And the PC connected Singxer SU-1 driving HDMI I2S on IN5. These two inputs sound identical when driven by the PC. So any sound differences with the Usbridge connected should be easy to spot.

I received the R7 faceplate/ display today. Have to wait until next week for installation on the R2R 7.

 

[ItsAllInMyHead]

[SNIP] I listen to my music streaming Tidal with my Notebook [SNIP]

... FredA says that having a dedicated OS in the computer could help and I would like to know how....

[SNIP] Today I use a Notebook with Intel i5 (not the fastest, but ok) with Windows 10 ....

I wouldn't want to change the way I listen to music because I like the simplicity of streaming Tidal with my PC and I use Dirac as Room Correction,

[SNIP]
So, today I'm tied up to a Notebook for listening to music.
Any suggestions?

It's important to say that I am not into tech issues and sometimes I get lost in your tech threads.

Emphasis added is mine around how I based my recommendation.

This is a bit OT for the thread, so I'll stop here, but feel free to PM.

Fred can make a recommendation perhaps on a card to work with your laptop. I don't have any I'd recommend, sorry. Either way, unless you're comfortable opening your laptop, installing the card, installing drivers and troubleshooting, I would not recommend that.

re: building your own Pi-based player. If you understood what Fred meant by nodes and packet loss etc. etc, then you could try building. If all of that was hard for you to understand, then stop here. DACLadder's post may give you an idea that even experts with the help of an expert have problems with these sometimes. If you are not into tech issues (your words) or don't understand his or Fred's post, then I don't recommend it. I also have no idea if any of these solutions work with Dirac.

I thought you were asking if you could install an "dedicated" OS on your existing laptop, if that would help, and for alternatives/recommendations based on your skills and use case. I also tried to explain a bit about OSs. Apologies if I got that wrong.

Summary:

• Can you / should you install a new "dedicated" OS on your notebook for audio? No. I'd very strongly advise against that.
• Is there anything you can do with your current notebook? You can try some other audio software that runs on Win10. Not ideal, but the cost is the lowest (free in a lot of cases to try). If MQA on Tidal is relevant or important to you, look for software that supports it. You already have a lot of things to go between your laptop and the R-8.

What else?

• If you want to buy a dedicated PC-type product (that works with Tidal and Dirac) to use instead of your notebook - there are many choices. Look up the NUC family of devices for a starter of what those look like.
• You can try a Mac Mini or some other devices.
• Don't try to build a pi-based device unless you're comfortable. The ones suggested above likely won't work for you unless you're willing to give up some of what you said was important to you and if you have some technical ability. If someone can tell you how to run Dirac on a pi - awesome. If you do try it and are willing to make some compromises... YouTube and forums are your friend.

Hope that clears up my recommendation based on what I thought you were asking and my perception around your level of skill and needs. Sorry if I've caused confusion.

Most importantly, enjoy the R-8!!!

 

[FredA]

It will be a fair comparison. Usbridge feeding the internal Singxer F1 on IN6. And the PC connected Singxer SU-1 driving HDMI I2S on IN5. These two inputs sound identical when driven by the PC. So any sound differences with the Usbridge connected should be easy to spot.

I received the R7 faceplate/ display today. Have to wait until next week for installation on the R2R 7.

Good. As i mentimed, it’s better to keep the old input selection cable. My biggest mistake was trying to remove it from the digital board, assuming there were connectors, but i think there were none in retrospect, just a big spot of glue.. Working on the display side to make the connections is much easier. Removing the sides of the chassis helps a lot with unscrewing the faceplate, but make sure the material used as spacer stays between the front corners and the sides It’s necessary to give some play to be able to slide the cover on. Also, remove the transfo section separator and the one to the left of the diigital section. That will allow the easy routing of the new settings cable. Otherwise, it is nearly inpossible.