Neumann NDH 20
Mar 13, 2019 at 3:47 PM Post #151 of 715

Josh83

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Has that reviewer posted any details on how he does his headphone measurements? I've heard the NDH 20 and it doesn't sound at all to me like that measurement would suggest.

We're in the middle of shooting the CanJam Singapore Preview Video right now, so I won't have an opportunity to measure it yet. When I can find a bit of time, I'll do it, and I feel rather certain it's going to be a different-looking measurement than the one quoted in the above post.

How do your impressions differ from the graph? How would you describe the sound of the NDH20?
 
Mar 13, 2019 at 4:09 PM Post #152 of 715

FullBright1

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Has that reviewer posted any details on how he does his headphone measurements? I've heard the NDH 20 and it doesn't sound at all to me like that measurement would suggest.

We're in the middle of shooting the CanJam Singapore Preview Video right now, so I won't have an opportunity to measure it yet. When I can find a bit of time, I'll do it, and I feel rather certain it's going to be a different-looking measurement than the one quoted in the above post.

The gear does not have incredible bass extension.
It has a natural bass extension and a very neutral tonality.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 7:04 AM Post #153 of 715

PaganDL

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The gear does not have incredible bass extension.
It has a natural bass extension and a very neutral tonality.


Hi @FullBright1,

Not unexpected, I agree.

Just my humble two cents...

From your earlier observations & ears about the NDH 20, this is why I am interested in the NDH 20 as this tends to be close to my Reference Sound preference though I am sure someone would disagree somewhere. :p

Sometimes demos take a while to happen...
Oh well, hopefully soon...

Hope you have a great day !
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 7:29 AM Post #154 of 715

PaganDL

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Yes, Pink is a good color to represent the tone of the Ananda.
I wish i could say they fatigue me slowly over time, but the reality for me is....its about one song = fatigue.
Based on the feel of the bass response as it touches my ears, i can play the LCD-X much louder then the Ananda, without any fatigue.
That, i can't explain, except it must have something to do with the way the Ananda drives/fires the high freq into your ears.
They are really such a good sound....but, i can't seem to find a way to keep them on my ears.


Hi @FullBright1,

Which song? Now you got me curious...
Also, are you using anything other than the RNHP to drive the Ananda?
Perhaps, going by specs on each headphone & what I know about Electrical Theory, the Extreme Pink you may be experiencing/hearing may be that extra 5 kHz the Ananda pushes out or tries to which is 27 db lower & perhaps not as clean as opposed to the LCD X's 130 db.
Regardless, tuning is also difficult to quantify & measure which definitely factors in & sometimes affects bass responseas well in ways which can't be predicted as everyone hears differently.
Keep in mind, this is also based on my own experiences with both these headphones, albeit some time ago which is why I wouldn't mind a refresh in sound memory but see how that goes.

Hope this makes sense.

This experience of yours almost reminds me of the Jade II demo I had a few weeks ago & does highlight what I mentioned about Hifiman's sound.
There were some songs which were almost amazingly good to almost brilliant but then some were discordant all over the place so much I experienced much faitigue in the Highs which was really disappointing...
Till that happened, I thought I found the second best Electrostat system I ever encountered, now I don't know what to class it as.
So far, personally & subjectively, Sonoma One is still the best Electrostat System I have ever heard.
Stellia was so much better overall than the Jade II during that demo.

Hope you have a great day !
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 9:28 AM Post #155 of 715

teqshea

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I have had mine for a couple weeks now and am very impressed. I use them as one source for mixing music. I find their sound to be quite good. The build quality is excellent also.
 
Mar 14, 2019 at 1:18 PM Post #156 of 715

FullBright1

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Hi @FullBright1,

Which song? Now you got me curious...
Also, are you using anything other than the RNHP to drive the Ananda?
Perhaps, going by specs on each headphone & what I know about Electrical Theory, the Extreme Pink you may be experiencing/hearing may be that extra 5 kHz the Ananda pushes out or tries to which is 27 db lower & perhaps not as clean as opposed to the LCD X's 130 db.
Regardless, tuning is also difficult to quantify & measure which definitely factors in & sometimes affects bass responseas well in ways which can't be predicted as everyone hears differently.
Keep in mind, this is also based on my own experiences with both these headphones, albeit some time ago which is why I wouldn't mind a refresh in sound memory but see how that goes.

Hope this makes sense.

This experience of yours almost reminds me of the Jade II demo I had a few weeks ago & does highlight what I mentioned about Hifiman's sound.
There were some songs which were almost amazingly good to almost brilliant but then some were discordant all over the place so much I experienced much faitigue in the Highs which was really disappointing...
Till that happened, I thought I found the second best Electrostat system I ever encountered, now I don't know what to class it as.
So far, personally & subjectively, Sonoma One is still the best Electrostat System I have ever heard.
Stellia was so much better overall than the Jade II during that demo.

Hope you have a great day !

Hey again.
ummm, basically every genre` ive tried with the Ananda's is giving me quick fatigue.
I have a ridiculous (size/amount) of CDs and Vinyl, and i've tried many many styles of music with the Ananda's.
I stopped using the Neve Headphone amp the first day i owned the Ananda's, as that is just too much clean on clean.
So, The Oppo SE and the Headroom Max are much warmer and this tamed them a bit., so, thats what ive been using.
I have also discovered that to my ear, orchestral solo instruments like Cello and Violin sound a bit thin as presented by the Ananda.
And.... the Ananda puts vocals a bit up front, by default, as its sound is designed to be really wide and cinematic.
Its almost like listening to music being processed by some type of stereo widening software., which, sounds really good.
Now these commments, are not castigations, but rather just my sound analysis....:)
The Ananda is a different sonic experience, then most other headphones that i use as my typical "go to's".
A lot of people will love the sound they produce, as it is unique.
Some are going to curse their treble, and hate it., but......"welcome to Hifimann Headphone sound", as Fang has been dialing up the treble since the HE400s.
The fellow seems to like it a lot.
I will say that i never have an real fatigue issues with the treble sound of the HE560s. It is a bit much, but, it has a different (treble) sound quality, then the treble that is being produced by the Ananda.
The Treble does not sizzle within the sound of the Ananda, and it has a unique TONE.
I rate these, as i said before in the "microscopes on your ears" category, and not in the long listening session - happy blissful category.
But thats just me.
My impression/opinion.
These are highly resolving unique sounding headphones that i really like, but, find difficult to use except for short bursts of listening.
 
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Mar 14, 2019 at 4:14 PM Post #157 of 715

FullBright1

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Hi @FullBright1,

Not unexpected, I agree.

Just my humble two cents...

From your earlier observations & ears about the NDH 20, this is why I am interested in the NDH 20 as this tends to be close to my Reference Sound preference though I am sure someone would disagree somewhere. :p

!

The NDH20's are an honest - flat - natural sound.
A tad dry, quality mids, and trebles are respectful and not commanding.
They are anti-bright., anti-V-shape.
 
Mar 15, 2019 at 10:01 AM Post #158 of 715

PaganDL

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The NDH20's are an honest - flat - natural sound.
A tad dry, quality mids, and trebles are respectful and not commanding.
They are anti-bright., anti-V-shape.

Hi @FullBright1,

As stated several times already on your thread.

The NDH 20 is defintely something which really interests me.

I don't need my ears deafened by super highs, etc or head smashed by super bass for no reason either.

Still waiting on that demo...not surprised or anything, just almost resigned... :p

Please keep up the good work !

Hope you have a great day !
 
Mar 15, 2019 at 10:13 AM Post #159 of 715

PaganDL

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Hey again.
ummm, basically every genre` ive tried with the Ananda's is giving me quick fatigue.
I have a ridiculous (size/amount) of CDs and Vinyl, and i've tried many many styles of music with the Ananda's.
I stopped using the Neve Headphone amp the first day i owned the Ananda's, as that is just too much clean on clean.
So, The Oppo SE and the Headroom Max are much warmer and this tamed them a bit., so, thats what ive been using.
I have also discovered that to my ear, orchestral solo instruments like Cello and Violin sound a bit thin as presented by the Ananda.
And.... the Ananda puts vocals a bit up front, by default, as its sound is designed to be really wide and cinematic.
Its almost like listening to music being processed by some type of stereo widening software., which, sounds really good.
Now these commments, are not castigations, but rather just my sound analysis....:)
The Ananda is a different sonic experience, then most other headphones that i use as my typical "go to's".
A lot of people will love the sound they produce, as it is unique.
Some are going to curse their treble, and hate it., but......"welcome to Hifimann Headphone sound", as Fang has been dialing up the treble since the HE400s.
The fellow seems to like it a lot.
I will say that i never have an real fatigue issues with the treble sound of the HE560s. It is a bit much, but, it has a different (treble) sound quality, then the treble that is being produced by the Ananda.
The Treble does not sizzle within the sound of the Ananda, and it has a unique TONE.
I rate these, as i said before in the "microscopes on your ears" category, and not in the long listening session - happy blissful category.
But thats just me.
My impression/opinion.
These are highly resolving unique sounding headphones that i really like, but, find difficult to use except for short bursts of listening.


Hi @FullBright1,

As stated, what you just explained is one among a long list of reasons why Hifiman sound overall is not for me to own though I can still enjoy on occasion, the extreme highs notwithstanding.
I definitely agree, Fang does like those highs a little too much...
But each to their own...

Your analysis regarding dialing up &/or tuning up those highs is more than on point.
As a one who shares sensitivity to highs, it makes me avoid Hifiman at all costs, which is slightly sad as I agree with some of your prior analysis, some are decent indeed.
Your impression/opinion is certainly respected & appreciated, no question.
Especially since your impression/opinion is bluntly honest which I have to say I like even more as I don't appreciate sheep which you are certainly not one either.
Never lose that by the way, you are amazingly awesome !

On a related note, I still use my own Oppo SE on occasion as intended so I can relate to anything needing to be 'tamed' as you describe if necessary.

Moving on to other things, you have any other headphones or amps to discuss ?

I look forward to more discourse with you.

It is a shame you can't PM.

Hope you have a great day !

Take Care,
PDL
 
Mar 15, 2019 at 11:35 AM Post #161 of 715

FullBright1

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Hi @FullBright1,


Especially since your impression/opinion is bluntly honest which I have to say I like even more as I don't appreciate sheep which you are certainly not one either.
Never lose that by the way, you are amazingly awesome !

On a related note, I still use my own Oppo SE on occasion as intended so I can relate to anything needing to be 'tamed' as you describe if necessary.

Moving on to other things, you have any other headphones or amps to discuss ?

I look forward to more discourse with you.

It is a shame you can't PM.

Hope you have a great day !

Take Care,
PDL

Do i have any other headphones or amps to discuss?
Well, if you take a look at my bio here and find one on the rather short list i provided that you've not heard which interests you, then i would be happy to oblige.
And yes, im sorry that im not allowed to PM with people here, as before they locked my pm box, i often talked to people "behind the scenes" and met some really interesting people who contacted me.
The nice thing about a pm box, is that you dont have to abide by stringent rules regarding topics.
I really have not taken a long look around here on Head-fi, and perhaps there is a sub-forum that allows people to opine about interests that are not strictly related to headphone - gear obsession.
Is there one?
And no, i dont candy coat my POV here regarding gears, as i feel that people who read me deserve to know as much as i can help them to discover so that they are able to be the best stewards with/of their money.
People hang out here to become informed, discern, and then go and spend. $$$$$$$$$

Where i can be a bit sheepish is not related to describing sound, but with regards to saying....."this headphone sounds bad"....... as i won't say that, i won't describe a headphone as having a bad sound.
As for me, i don't think of headphone sound as being bad, (if i dont like it), i will just conclude that its voice is not what i prefer to hear, & point out something about its freq response that is to my ears IS an issue that could be an issue for someone else.
The Ananda is a bit of a conundrum as it does so many things right, but it also has Fang's general upper freq manifestation.
Many reviewers say that the Sundara and the Ananda have a similar high end sound, but i think the Ananda's upper freq is way way more related to what Fang was doing very early on with his headphone designs.
The Ananda is a fine sounding headphone, it has its own sonic flavor, and a lot of people will adore it.........but not everyone.
 
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Mar 15, 2019 at 10:41 PM Post #163 of 715

PaganDL

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Do i have any other headphones or amps to discuss?
Well, if you take a look at my bio here and find one on the rather short list i provided that you've not heard which interests you, then i would be happy to oblige.
And yes, im sorry that im not allowed to PM with people here, as before they locked my pm box, i often talked to people "behind the scenes" and met some really interesting people who contacted me.
The nice thing about a pm box, is that you dont have to abide by stringent rules regarding topics.
I really have not taken a long look around here on Head-fi, and perhaps there is a sub-forum that allows people to opine about interests that are not strictly related to headphone - gear obsession.
Is there one?
And no, i dont candy coat my POV here regarding gears, as i feel that people who read me deserve to know as much as i can help them to discover so that they are able to be the best stewards with/of their money.
People hang out here to become informed, discern, and then go and spend. $$$$$$$$$

Where i can be a bit sheepish is not related to describing sound, but with regards to saying....."this headphone sounds bad"....... as i won't say that, i won't describe a headphone as having a bad sound.
As for me, i don't think of headphone sound as being bad, (if i dont like it), i will just conclude that its voice is not what i prefer to hear, & point out something about its freq response that is to my ears IS an issue that could be an issue for someone else.
The Ananda is a bit of a conundrum as it does so many things right, but it also has Fang's general upper freq manifestation.
Many reviewers say that the Sundara and the Ananda have a similar high end sound, but i think the Ananda's upper freq is way way more related to what Fang was doing very early on with his headphone designs.
The Ananda is a fine sounding headphone, it has its own sonic flavor, and a lot of people will adore it.........but not everyone.


Hi @FullBright1,

Short list ? That is genuinely really quite heartwarming & does make me laugh in a good way you think so...
Have you seen my list yet ?
I'm sure there is gear on yours which you own which is not on there as well, pretty certain about that but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I will certainly take you up on the few I have not heard as I have demo nearly all on your list at some point over the years.
Quad ERA 1 (I believe there is possibly a new revision coming soon) & the Mofi & Ella I have been searching for some time to demo but given where I am in the world, it is unlikely this will ever be possible unless I travel to the US or Europe which is genuinely annoying (just to try those, that is) but not insurmountable...
So if I ever was going to own, more than likely would have to buy blind which I am not a fan of, not to mention, given I am outside US & Europe, that price is on average double the MSRP, even with 'trade' discount which the Blue headphones fall under.

I know this is not the place for it but it would be good if you were contactable some other way though I'm sure something can be figured out somewhere & a locked PM box certainly doesn't help which is a sad shame & really nothing to feel sorry for...but I digress...

In answer to your question regarding non related audio gear talk, there are a few sub forums which cater to this but I rarely go to those sections myself.
I tend to unofficially help out in the intro, help & recommendations areas as well as specific gear threads which already takes up a lot of time as is.
But definitely on the same accord in helping others be 'good stewards with their money', as you put it.
Ignorance is a terrible, highly destructive POV.

As said, your POV is admirable & refreshing as I tend not to coat my own advice in any way either & more often than not, it is sad to almost disappointing there are so many sheep who only want monosyllabic answers, usually somehow less than one word as well as follow whatever hype train just because some so called 'influencer', which also goes for reviewers too, by the way, says they should.
Not to mention there are those who are unbelievably lazy in going to demo gear, especially when they are in the US, in cities where Canjam &/or headphone meets take place.
Others are not so lucky.

My own pet peeve reagarding the whole bad sound thing' as it's often put by others is, no it doesn't sound bad in any way or the way someone describes, only more than likely said listener is not using the right source &/or has porper gear synergy.
We have both touched on this topic before so further doesn't need to be said.
There are also reasons why, personally & subjectively, I may not like said sound either but doesn't mean I going to say its terrible just for the sake of it...
It is for that reason as mentioned a while back I am not a so called 'fan' of a lot of major consumer audio brands for various reasons, doesn't mean I don't like what they offer, more often than not, it's not likeable enough for me to own...
Nor does it stop me from demoing the hell out of said gear either, just wou;dn't necessarily be my first choice...

Also, if you don't mind be asking, been curious for a while, you say you are a professional musician, a guitarist, are you sessional or independant?
I don't suppose there is somewhere, aside from your Youtube channel, where you have your work, is there?
Or maybe elude to what songs/albums you have produced &/or written for & on?
Or maybe who, if you are allowed to say, producer wise, who you have worked with...
Don't necessarily need to know or mean the band or artist either...

While I am no professional musician or producer myself, per say, just a humble sound enthusiast who is serious about Sound Monitoring, can't play the axe that well either but my instrument preferences is for traditional percussion & strings...

Hope you have a great day !
 
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Mar 16, 2019 at 9:34 AM Post #164 of 715

FullBright1

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Hi @FullBright1,
the Mofi & Ella
Also, if you don't mind be asking, been curious for a while, you say you are a professional musician, a guitarist, are you sessional or independant?
I don't suppose there is somewhere, aside from your Youtube channel, where you have your work, is there?
Or maybe elude to what songs/albums you have produced &/or written for & on?
Or maybe who, if you are allowed to say, producer wise, who you have worked with...
Don't necessarily need to know or mean the band or artist either...

While I am no professional musician or producer myself, per say, just a humble sound enthusiast who is serious about Sound Monitoring, can't play the axe that well either but my instrument preferences is for traditional percussion & strings...

!

"Identity revealed" is the reason i can't point you to a specific piece of music i have created myself.
But yes, my music has been heard all over the world.
Maybe i can created something simple, related to keyboards, and post it here at some point..

Umm, about the MoFi Blue products.
Avoid.
Sorry, but you won't be impressed with their sound, and you will find wearing these products very much like wearing a football helmet, or perhaps a sack of rocks.
They are heavy, restrictive, and their sound quality to my ear, is nothing i would care to review.
Recently they released a new one, and its actually the original Mo-Fi , rebranded.
I dont like it when a company, even one that is recently sold, tries to create the idea of a new product by releasing an old one with a new box and a new name.
Avoid.
 
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Mar 16, 2019 at 10:54 AM Post #165 of 715

PaganDL

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"Identity revealed" is the reason i can't point you to a specific piece of music i have created myself.
But yes, my music has been heard all over the world.
Maybe i can created something simple, related to keyboards, and post it here at some point..

Umm, about the MoFi Blue products.
Avoid.
Sorry, but you won't be impressed with their sound, and you will find wearing these products very much like wearing a football helmet, or perhaps a sack of rocks.
They are heavy, restrictive, and their sound quality to my ear, is nothing i would care to review.
Recently they released a new one, and its actually the original Mo-Fi , rebranded.
I dont like it when a company, even one that is recently sold, tries to create the idea of a new product by releasing an old one with a new box and a new name.
Avoid.


Don't worry, I figured as much, was worth a try.
One can always hope. :)
But in a public forum...especially on the internet...yes, pointing to certain work, however subtle it may be, would make things too easy & draw unnecessary attention to oneself from the wrong people.
Once again, regardless, I appreciate the discourse.

Regarding Mofi Blue products, I figured as much which is why I was never too fussed they never showed up where I am.
Though admittedly, I am still curious about their microphones though I'm not sure I would ever use them myself either.
I prefer Shure & Rode for microphones, my SM 58 is still going strong, granted it doesn't get much use... :p
Agreed, rebrands can be annoying...

So I take it Quad Era is still a go, then?

Hope you have a great day !
 

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