[arielelf]

I have an original Hifiman HE-400 with upgraded pads, forgot who made them but the are sheepskin on the outside and microfiber inside. I also just bought a Schiit Modi 2 Multibit and Magni 3 in anticipation for the mass drop hd-6xx which arrived last week. After all of the glowing reviews I expected it to be an upgrade but I was surprised at how much I hated them. They seem to have no soundstage or instrument separation compared to the HE400. I am not that literate with audiophile terms but I guess I would call it congested and very thick and dark compared to the he400. I am very treble sensitive and the hd6xx's were also causing me pain from the treble, which is weird because they seem so dark and way warmer then the he400's.

My portable setup is a Campfire Andromeda with the Dragonfly red, which I LOVE for the detailed sound, but they also do not hurt my ears with the highs. I would like an open headphone that is an upgrade to the he400 that gives me the nice openess of the he400 with at least as much bass but maybe a little bit smoother and has at least as much bass impact and more detail.

I have a few that I am looking at such as the LCD-2 fazor, which sounds like will have as much or better bass impact but may sound thick like the hd6xx.

HE560, which might have the detailed openess, combined with the bass impact?

or the Focal Elear, the strong dynamics sounds like something that I hear in my he400 but better? Has anyone ever tried both? I have read that the soundstage is not very open on these, which might be disappointing to me possibly?

I have read that the he-400 is nothing like the he-400i or the he-400s, which are much more neutral and do not have near the level of bass impact or the vast soundstage of the original he-400.

Sorry for the long writeup but I thought I would include as much info as possible

 

[cossix]

I haven't heard anything from hifiman but I can compare the LCD2 to the 650, which is essentially the same as the 6xx I believe.

The LCD2 has more treble than the 650, but it still retains somewhat of a laid back sound. I'd say if you dislike the 650 treble then you may not like the LCD2 as it's brighter in comparison.

As for mids, vocals on the LCD2 seem a touch further away but are still natural sounding and smooth. I prefer the texture of the LCD2 mids but the closeness of the 650 mids.

The LCD2 has more bass impact and reaches lower while the 650 seems inaccurate in comparison.

You mentioned thickness, and I wouldn't say the LCD2 sound thick in the same way the 650 does. The 650 sounds congested in comparison because it doesn't have much treble and the soundstage is small. The LCD2 is more sparkly without getting annoying in the treble region but still has powerful bass and smooth mids.


To me, the LCD2 Fazor does everything better than the 650 in terms of sound. It's more detailed and more exciting. It's not as intimate though, which is the one quality I like about the 650. I have since dedicated my 650 to sit by my record player to be my headphone for that use.

I hope all this helps you at least a bit!

 

[Beyakusenn]

The HE-560 has the lightest bass of all the headphones mentioned above. Some call it neutral, but to me it was even a slightly south of neutral. Even so, it was incredibly accurate and the soundstage and imaging were great! The only problem I has with it was the kind of 'plasticky' treble. This is not an audiophile term, by the way. It just sounded a bit artificial to me compared to the smooth, detailed treble of my Stax SR-407; mainly with cymbals.

If you are sensitive to treble, it's a bit weird that the HD6XX was worse to your ears than the HE-400, as they both have a 9kHz peak, but it's more pronounced on the HE-400.

 

[arielelf]

Thank you all for the help!
I ordered a Focal Elear that I found on eBay for a great deal. Hopefully it will be something I like, if not I will resell and try out the LCD2.

 

[buke9]

If you have trouble with the 6xx’s you will most likely have the same problem with the Elears. I don’t think your treble sensitive if you were fine with the 400’s it might be a pressure thing. I have both the 6xx’s and the 400’s and the 400’s are much brighter than the 6xx’s. The Andromeda’s were not that warm to me either as I like a bright signature and they are one of my top 5 favorites in IEM’s that I have heard. I guess you just have to try out the Elears and see.

 

[arielelf]

Just got the Elears in the mail tonight and have spent a little over an hour with them. First impression is that they are definitely much better than the hd-6xx to me. I am not sure what was causing the fatigue that I was getting with the hd-6xx, maybe I was turning them up too much in an effort to hear some sort of layering, rather than a wall of sound? but I definitely was getting fatigued.

The Elears do seem to present details throughout the entire frequency range, is that called micro contrast? It is in photography terms. I would describe it as a slight HDR sound, High dynamic range, which is also a photography term for a processing a photograph where every detail within the photograph, no matter what part of the value of the image falls, from light to dark is treated so that it has artificially increased contrast in order to emphasize the details. When it is overdone it looks very strange and alien, but when it is done judiciously it replicates how our eyes work naturally and how we see, which is not what the camera sees. Our eyes can compensate for extreme lights and darks, and for colors so that we can see more information than the camera can. I feel like the elears have done this and it is interesting but it might be a little too much. But its late and I might be imagining this. I'll keep listening.

The Elears definitely do not have near the soundstage of the HE400 though, but definitely more than the Hd6xx. Nor do they have bass impact or depth that the HE400 have, which I miss. Also they are missing the airiness of the HE400, but they definitely do make all of the details apparent, more than than the He400.

The Elears are giving me something kind of similar to my Andromedas but not quite as naturally. I was hoping to get the huge soundstage that you can only get with open headphones for my home setup, but the Elears are not delivering that. They are very good though!! I guess my ideal would be having the open airiness and huge soundstage and bass of the He400 with more details and ever so slightly smoother, or less grainy.

 

[arielelf]

Yeah I just put my HE400 back on and listened to everything that I have just heard with the Elears. The HE400 are way more natural sounding and much more engaging. Maybe I should just stick with them. I have upgraded pads and cord for them, which helped quite a bit with the sound. Also my new amp and dac (mango 3 and modi multibit) seems to tame some of the trebel issues I used to have with the He400.
I wonder if I would like the LCD2?

 

[arielelf]

I have continued my quest for an upgrade for the original he400 and have not yet had luck. I have since tried the LCD2 fazor, Audioquest Nighthawk, and DT1990PRO.
The LCD2 were way too dark for me. The Nighthawks are dark but kind of interesting sounding. The DT1990PRO is interesting but do not have the openness that I am looking for. I guess what I am really looking for is something that has a very open huge soundstage with a good hit of bass and detail.
Any suggestions?

 

[Beyakusenn]

Recently I found a great headphone shop near me. I got to listen to various high-end headphones and from my experience, I highly recommend the HiFiMan Ananda for you. It has the openness, it's not too dark, while still having a great extended bass, it has good imaging, speed and separation.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I have an original Hifiman HE-400 with upgraded pads, forgot who made them but the are sheepskin on the outside and microfiber inside. I also just bought a Schiit Modi 2 Multibit and Magni 3 in anticipation for the mass drop hd-6xx which arrived last week. After all of the glowing reviews I expected it to be an upgrade but I was surprised at how much I hated them. They seem to have no soundstage or instrument separation compared to the HE400. I am not that literate with audiophile terms but I guess I would call it congested and very thick and dark compared to the he400. I am very treble sensitive and the hd6xx's were also causing me pain from the treble, which is weird because they seem so dark and way warmer then the he400's.

HD6XX is an older design, the HD650. HD6XX is being recommended because it costs less and is less picky about amplification. Otherwise, you'd have seen feedback about its small soundstage from reviews and comparisons.

That said, what they are not known for really is soundstage size. In terms of proportionality, they're good - meaning you don't end up with a severe case of "Fantastic Four Retires from Superhero-ing, Mr Fantastic is a show-off drummer," ie, the cymbals being waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out to the flanks if not the entire drum set spanning a width wider than where the guitars are.

Tonally, the HD650 trimmed the HD600's 3500hz peak, but also shaved off a little from everything else above it. It's a smoother response but coupled with the taller and wider bass plateau, it has a tendency to sound darker compared to a headphone with a spike at 3500hz like the HD600 or even the HE400i with a shorter spike. As for why you were getting pain from the sound of the HD6XX, it's likely that you're cranking it up waaaaaaaaay louder than you would on the HE400 to try to get the midrange and treble more audible over the bass plateau, but it's just smooth enough that no spikes - even short ones - are making it easy to get you to pull back on the volume knob. The lack of imaging depth also doesn't make the vocals pop out, so you're cranking it up even more. Try adjusting the clamp - they should barely be felt on your head that way there's not much compression on the earpads to boost the bass and make it easier to hear the rest of the range.

My portable setup is a Campfire Andromeda with the Dragonfly red, which I LOVE for the detailed sound, but they also do not hurt my ears with the highs. I would like an open headphone that is an upgrade to the he400 that gives me the nice openess of the he400 with at least as much bass but maybe a little bit smoother and has at least as much bass impact and more detail.

HD650 is closer to the LCD-2 and LCD-2C. Fazor version has more audible treble.