[Mattuz]

Hello guys, I have my setup made of:

PC to Schiit Modi
Project Debut Carbon to Schiit Mani

Modi and Mani to Schiit Sys
From Sys to Anaview AMS0100

From Anaview to Wharfedale Diamond 210


Now I would like to add a subwoofer to give the setup richer bass. My speakers are very good for their size, bass are clear and not artificial, but still present, but they lack a bit in some kind of styles (rap, hip-pop, some metal/ hard rock)

Which sub you suggest under 200€? I was oriented through the SW150 because it's of the same speakers' line. I also would like to have rca input and output on the sub becausse I want to put it between my Sys and the Anaview.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Which sub you suggest under 200€? I was oriented through the SW150 because it's of the same speakers' line. I also would like to have rca input and output on the sub becausse I want to put it between my Sys and the Anaview.

Line level input w/ low pass and fullpass output is a lot more common with studio subwoofers designed for taking a signal from a preamp then redirect it back out to the main monitors. I'm not aware of any home audio/theater sub with those though there might be some, just not affordable. And neither are the monitoring subwoofers - cheapest I know is KRK and the rest don't have RCA (they use XLR).

Just use speaker level input-output on the sub. Your preamp will still affect both the sub and the speakers so as long as your sub plate amp gain is set correctly you only move the preamp knob.

 

[Mattuz]

Line level input w/ low pass and fullpass output is a lot more common with studio subwoofers designed for taking a signal from a preamp then redirect it back out to the main monitors. I'm not aware of any home audio/theater sub with those though there might be some, just not affordable. And neither are the monitoring subwoofers - cheapest I know is KRK and the rest don't have RCA (they use XLR).

Just use speaker level input-output on the sub. Your preamp will still affect both the sub and the speakers so as long as your sub plate amp gain is set correctly you only move the preamp knob.

So you are saying that I can just take the speakers output from the amplifier, plug into the subwoofer and then from the sub out to the speakers? And if yes, which subwoofer of this type you think is the best bang for my buck?

By the way the Wharfedale sub, SW150, has the RCA input and output.

 

[Jearly410]

So you are saying that I can just take the speakers output from the amplifier, plug into the subwoofer and then from the sub out to the speakers? And if yes, which subwoofer of this type you think is the best bang for my buck?

By the way the Wharfedale sub, SW150, has the RCA input and output.

That’s correct. The sub will cut all frequencies below a certain point as specified by each sub. Some will do it at 85hz others at 70hz etc.

 

[Mattuz]

That’s correct. The sub will cut all frequencies below a certain point as specified by each sub. Some will do it at 85hz others at 70hz etc.

Perfect, my speakers have a range of 68hz-20khz.

Do you have some subwoofer models in mid that I can take into consideration?

 

[Jearly410]

Perfect, my speakers have a range of 68hz-20khz.

Do you have some subwoofer models in mid that I can take into consideration?

Buy used if you can within your price range. Otherwise a good quality sub is $400 and higher. Ava sb1000 is a good one.

 

[Mattuz]

Buy used if you can within your price range. Otherwise a good quality sub is $400 and higher. Ava sb1000 is a good one.

I asked because I see lots of people saying that subs are very expensive and the one in the price range I am looking for are not that good and I wanted to understand why.
I mean, I payed for my speakers around 200 dollars and they sound marvelous, I also have to say that I use them as desk speakers in my room that is small. So is it true that 200 euro sub won't sound well? I mean, I do not need much power to make everything shake in my room, I just wanted non artificial sub bass to cover the part of the spectrum that my speakers can't cover. Isn't there anything that suits my need at less than 200 euro?

Also, in the 2nd hand market, what should I look for since I do not know many models?

 

[Jearly410]

I asked because I see lots of people saying that subs are very expensive and the one in the price range I am looking for are not that good and I wanted to understand why.
I mean, I payed for my speakers around 200 dollars and they sound marvelous, I also have to say that I use them as desk speakers in my room that is small. So is it true that 200 euro sub won't sound well? I mean, I do not need much power to make everything shake in my room, I just wanted non artificial sub bass to cover the part of the spectrum that my speakers can't cover. Isn't there anything that suits my need at less than 200 euro?

Also, in the 2nd hand market, what should I look for since I do not know many models?

I went through this process not long ago and discovered what you are discovering now. Generally a sub costs twice your speakers. The speakers I chose are the swan m200mkiii, which was easy for me. Finding a sub took a lot of time reading about what to look for and why. I almost bought a cheaper sub until I borrowed my friends Polk psw111 and used it for a week. It added thump and energy but was too muddy/ boomy for music. It had no speaker out so I had to calibrate by ear and it was not beneficial for music.

That’s why you don’t go cheap for music. You need quick accurate bass and cheap subs are boomy and will not blend well with your speakers. I ended up purchasing a used Sunfire hrs-10 for $300 locally. There is no comparison in quality between the Polk and the Sunfire. The sub has a crossover at 70hz which is right before the speakers drop off. I got lucky with that.

Above all else, room treatment is very very important.

 

[Mattuz]

Ok got it.
So now I just need someone that puts here a list of good model to look for in the second hand market because I am a newbie in this sector

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So you are saying that I can just take the speakers output from the amplifier, plug into the subwoofer and then from the sub out to the speakers?

As long as they have the in+out speaker terminals, yes. but....

By the way the Wharfedale sub, SW150, has the RCA input and output.

...if you're using a preamp and power amp, and more importantly the SW150 has it now (the older one back in the 2000s didn't), then might as well get that and use line level connections.

And if yes, which subwoofer of this type you think is the best bang for my buck?

SW150. Even without the line level input and pass through that's what I'd get. Bonus is you can match the finish to your Wharfedale speakers. Monoprice and Dayton are other alternatives.

That said, they're all ported and tend to be tuned more for booming low end for HT use, so there's really no absolutely best sub out there unless you just build one yourself in a large sealed box or ported box but tune it to extend respose without boosting any part of the range. In any case, for the budget and if you don't want to DIY it, I'd worry less about that and more on placement actually, and would DIY at least some kind of platform to raise the sub off the floor to reduce reflections (if you have hard floors like marble and more so with concrete under it) and pathlength variance.

 

[Mattuz]

As long as they have the in+out speaker terminals, yes. but....




...if you're using a preamp and power amp, and more importantly the SW150 has it now (the older one back in the 2000s didn't), then might as well get that and use line level connections.




SW150. Even without the line level input and pass through that's what I'd get. Bonus is you can match the finish to your Wharfedale speakers. Monoprice and Dayton are other alternatives.

That said, they're all ported and tend to be tuned more for booming low end for HT use, so there's really no absolutely best sub out there unless you just build one yourself in a large sealed box or ported box but tune it to extend respose without boosting any part of the range. In any case, for the budget and if you don't want to DIY it, I'd worry less about that and more on placement actually, and would DIY at least some kind of platform to raise the sub off the floor to reduce reflections (if you have hard floors like marble and more so with concrete under it) and pathlength variance.

Understood. I am interested in the placement part. I have hard floor and no moquette, I was going to put it under the desk that has the Diamond 210 over it, so under my pc desk. If I understood correctly you are suggesting to raise the sub from the floor? How much?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Understood. I am interested in the placement part. I have hard floor and no moquette, I was going to put it under the desk that has the Diamond 210 over it, so under my pc desk. If I understood correctly you are suggesting to raise the sub from the floor? How much?

When I said that I was thinking you have a more conventional home audio set up. Here's an illustration to show pathlength differences. Proper height makes for nearly equal pathlength from your head to the tweeters (red) and midwoofers (maroon). Bass is less directional but that does not make it immune from this (direct sound in green), on top of which, reflections (light green) in terms of where they reflect and how much can add to the problem.

Here's an example of that below with two extremes - ideal placement being slightly elevated (or farther to the back) between the two speakers, less ideal with the sub at the corner to the right. Look at the pathlength differences between direct and indirect sound from the sub at either position vs the speakers.

If you're using it nearfield that can be problematic in other ways. The desk can trap the bass in that area same way corners would in-room, boosting the volume and along with reflections, pull the image downward. That gets worse (plus noise) if it rattles the desk or anything else on it. Here's something similar - first two photos on a studio set-up, third at a typical home desk.

 

[Mattuz]

Well so I will just put it under the desk, at the center and I wll take around 2 steps back from the desk as I usually do when listening to music. In this way I should avoid the last picture situation and be more similar to this

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well so I will just put it under the desk, at the center and I wll take around 2 steps back from the desk as I usually do when listening to music. In this way I should avoid the last picture situation and be more similar to this

Slightly similar but sub lower, though in the center. That desk over it can still boost the bass though although from that sitting position lowering the gain might be useful enough.