[UntilThen]

M51 is my spare dac to Yggdrasil and is as relevant today as when it was first released. I much prefer it to Bifrost 2 which I also owned.

 

[jeenam]

To be clear, the Yggy is in a completely different league and price point compared to the M51.

 

[UntilThen]

I've owned Yggy for 5 years since new so consider me a fan. However I've bought and sold M51 and I'm on my 2nd unit so consider me a fan too.

 

[Lvivske]

Cool sounds like it's in good company still. Thankfully I'm still skeptical of Yggy's price bracket ><

 

[jeenam]

You get what you pay for. The Yggy is in another league. There's no need for skepticism there.

 

[Lvivske]

You get what you pay for. The Yggy is in another league. There's no need for skepticism there.

See now, I'm skeptical of that, so I'm scoping the used market for cool looking rigs like the M51

 

[jeenam]

Surely @UntilThen can verify the sound quality of the Yggdrasil for you. I've never seen a review that didn't rave about the Yggdrasil.

 

[UntilThen]

To everything there is a price point. At the moment, you can buy a used M51 for really cheap and they are usually in very good condition. I spend equal time in 2 accommodations so having 2 dacs is convenient for me. M51 is a very good spare dac for the price.

I'm not here to talk about Yggdrasil but I regard it as Schiit's best product. Ever since getting this dac I've never seen the need to upgrade dac again. I've even had Terminator loan to me for comparison and naturally Yggdrasil stays.

 

[vlach]

I use the M51 in my secondary/desktop set up. I like it for what it does well; clean, clear, articulate with a good amount of space around instruments and smooth sounding overall. Great feature set and variable output level.
That said, i urge anyone looking to buy a used M51 to consider the Bryston BDA-1 which sells used for approx the same. The BDA-1 is full bodied with better bass.

 

[Lvivske]

To be clear, the Yggy is in a completely different league and price point compared to the M51.

Technically they're the same price point by release MSRP

I use the M51 in my secondary/desktop set up. I like it for what it does well; clean, clear, articulate with a good amount of space around instruments and smooth sounding overall. Great feature set and variable output level.
That said, i urge anyone looking to buy a used M51 to consider the Bryston BDA-1 which sells used for approx the same. The BDA-1 is full bodied with better bass.

If only the looks were on par, but added it to my maybe list regardless. I was looking at this for my secondary setup and had a brushed aluminum theme going. Looks first, "is it any good?" second lol

 

[UntilThen]

In Australia, you can get a used good condition M51 for AUD$750. A used BDA-1 will cost much more.

 

[Lvivske]

In Australia, you can get a used good condition M51 for AUD$750. A used BDA-1 will cost much more.

Here I can get a used BDA for 600 CAD but M51 for 900 (though I'm sure I can haggle it down, saw one go for 600 USD recently)

 

[Lvivske]

Ended up getting one under 600, which is as low as possible right now, aftermarket is 700-800, and a rare ebay auction just went for 630

Anyway, have some findings so far

I've been using it with my AppleTV as source, trying out both the HDMI and Optical inputs. I was hoping the HDMI would have less jitter or perform better than the optical out, but I can say finally that the optical wins hands down. Vocals are cleaner and there's more separation. Toggling inputs sounds like changing modes, despite it being the same digital source. I cant say whether the AppleTV HDMI out is to blame, or the HDMI in, but I'll be sticking with optical.

Tried checking the firmware and while it shows up as the latest, the mode that displays those options only shows up for like 2 seconds before the whole screen goes blue. Likewise, when trying to update the firmware it just hangs on the "Bootloader 1.21" message. It was mentioned earlier in this thread but no follow up - anyone else have this issue? I guess it doesn't matter if I'm on the latest firmware already...

Finally, I compared this with my Topping E50. AppleTV HDMI out went to the NAD, and the optical to the Topping, and each output to a different RCA input on my amp, and A/B tested the sound. At first they sounded identical, but after a bit I started to notice the differences. The NAD has a slightly more expanded sound, more range...I can hear it at the top of my ear lobe (Darwins Tubercle) and once I pinpointed it going back to the Topping kinda sucked, like it was filtering out some frequencies (like a micro hi-filter). Everything else sounds great on it, but that vocal clarity is something else.

On the flip side, I cranked the volume on my amp and listened to both, and the NAD makes much, much more noise. While the Topping is quiet, the NAD has some white noise that comes through with enough volume, and every 2 seconds or so there's a consistent 'blip' sound, like a metronome. I'd never hear this stuff in listening, but it does kinda suck that the $300 DAC is winning here. That said, the NAD clearly sounds better for music, and that's what matters.

 

[vlach]

Ended up getting one under 600, which is as low as possible right now, aftermarket is 700-800, and a rare ebay auction just went for 630

Anyway, have some findings so far

I've been using it with my AppleTV as source, trying out both the HDMI and Optical inputs. I was hoping the HDMI would have less jitter or perform better than the optical out, but I can say finally that the optical wins hands down. Vocals are cleaner and there's more separation. Toggling inputs sounds like changing modes, despite it being the same digital source. I cant say whether the AppleTV HDMI out is to blame, or the HDMI in, but I'll be sticking with optical.

Tried checking the firmware and while it shows up as the latest, the mode that displays those options only shows up for like 2 seconds before the whole screen goes blue. Likewise, when trying to update the firmware it just hangs on the "Bootloader 1.21" message. It was mentioned earlier in this thread but no follow up - anyone else have this issue? I guess it doesn't matter if I'm on the latest firmware already...

Finally, I compared this with my Topping E50. AppleTV HDMI out went to the NAD, and the optical to the Topping, and each output to a different RCA input on my amp, and A/B tested the sound. At first they sounded identical, but after a bit I started to notice the differences. The NAD has a slightly more expanded sound, more range...I can hear it at the top of my ear lobe (Darwins Tubercle) and once I pinpointed it going back to the Topping kinda sucked, like it was filtering out some frequencies (like a micro hi-filter). Everything else sounds great on it, but that vocal clarity is something else.

On the flip side, I cranked the volume on my amp and listened to both, and the NAD makes much, much more noise. While the Topping is quiet, the NAD has some white noise that comes through with enough volume, and every 2 seconds or so there's a consistent 'blip' sound, like a metronome. I'd never hear this stuff in listening, but it does kinda suck that the $300 DAC is winning here. That said, the NAD clearly sounds better for music, and that's what matters.

Is the M51 set to 0dB? If so try -3dB to see if the noise goes away, it won't impact SQ.
Also make sure to test the polarity settings, i get slightly more bass on neg polarity.

 

[Lvivske]

Is the M51 set to 0dB? If so try -3dB to see if the noise goes away, it won't impact SQ.
Also make sure to test the polarity settings, i get slightly more bass on neg polarity.

Same on mute, so not a volume thing, just the noise floor, regardless of input. (once it finishes the start-up sequence where it says "NAD M51" to operating it begins)

I'll be sure to check out the polarity again, I know I like it inverted on my Bifrost

edit update: Polarity has a different impact at times but I usually keep it standard. The noise floor is still there, but again, we're talking massive gain to make it audible. Gain that makes the mute button audible (yes, hitting mute makes a beeping sound if you have it loud enough).

I also changed out the big chinese capacitor on the power board with an audio grade Nichicon. Did it improve anything? Eh, I'll pretend

ps: NAD are assholes for gluing that cap in place, but thankfully these boards are super easy to remove and easy to work on