[Lisa]

Hi,

I've been looking for a good speaker system lately and ended up with the Dynaudio audience 52 speakers and a NAD C350 amp.

Today I got them and I don't like the way the treble sounds. It's shrill or harsch or whatever is the right word to call it. And there's a lot of sibilance.

I wasn't able to go and listen in stores cause of a serious illness and therefore had to rely on information on the internet. I was led to believe that this combination would have a neutral sound so that's why I chose it.

The room is very small and I listen in the "nearfield?" so that might have something to it.

Turning down the treble helps a bit but adds other sonic signatures I don't like.

The store's got an exchange policy so I'm thinking if burn-in won't fix this I'll use that policy.
But I don't know if the problem is in the amp or the speakers. And I don't know what to choose to get something more to my liking.
I'm also limited to the brands the store supplies.
By head I know they've got Kef an B&W...
I wish I could name them all to make it easier.

I recently got the chance to listen to some Grado sr-60 and liked their sound a lot. I know they're known for their upfront sound and brightness but they didn't have that harschness to them. I liked that they were musical.

I would appreciate some help

Lisa.

 

[dd3mon]

With Dynaudio's soft dome tweeters, I rarely hear them described as "shrill" or "bright". Let them burn-in, if the problems continue I'd look at your source or amp. Danes need ridiculous amounts of power to sound at their best (really bring out the bass) - but should do fairly well with what you've got. (I don't know what you're using for a source..)

-dd3mon

 

[Lisa]

A NAD CD player C541i as source and because of the fact that I allready picked out two NAD components I also got a NAD tuner.

 

[Wodgy]

Welcome to the complicated world of speakers

First, you made the right choice by choosing soft dome tweeters, since they're typically much less harsh than metal dome tweeters.

My guess is that the harshness you're hearing is coming from one of five sources:

1) the speaker's crossover -- some people are very irritated by the sound of a speaker's crossover; I know this is especially true for me if the crossover is around 2 kHz - 2.8 kHz, even really expensive speakers crossed in that range still irritate me

2) nearfield listening -- many speakers don't sound good in the nearfield (too harsh); there are "studio monitors" designed for nearfield listening, but they're still pretty harsh; I know it sounds silly, but if you're listening in the nearfield you're better off with a nice set of computer speakers that includes a subwoofer, since these are really optimized for listening to music (as opposed to monitoring) in the nearfield

3) room acoustics -- if your room has a lot of reflective surfaces (shiny walls, hardwood floors) and is small, you'll get odd treble reflections that sound bad

4) your amplifier -- you may be hearing "solid state" artifacts; honestly, though, I've owned the NAD C350 in the past and it's one of the smoothest solid state amps around (smoother than the current C320BEE by a large margin) so I doubt that's it; you might want to try tubes, but that gets expensive fast

5) your source -- could have an unwanted treble emphasis, but this isn't likely since the C541i is known to be fairly dark and smooth.

Honestly, 1 and 2 are the most probable. If you decide to not keep these speakers, I'd suggest just getting a nice 2.1 set of computer speakers. You'll save a bundle of money this way too, and you'll be able to get rid of the C350.

 

[stymie miasma]

I have been using an NAD C740 Receiver with some PSB Image 2B monitor speakers. The PSB speakers have a metal dome, so I was a little concerned about harsh or fatiguing treble, but I have yet to experience any problems. That said, I have not been able to get enough time to listen for more than 2 hours per sitting.

What I don't like thus far is the midrange, which to my ears seems a little recessed. Actually, it could very well be neutral, seeing as my 'reference' is a pair of Grado SR60s

In any case, I find myself looking for a bit more out of the mids. I think a lot of my problems stem from the fact that my source is a crappy discman (1 bit DAC), so the search is on for a source that will provide my with luscious mids and possibly some very smooth and unfatiguing treble, should my speakers start giving me grief.

Back to your problem, from what I have read, NAD can have a tendency to sound bright in some systems. As I said, I have not had any such problems in my system, but then again, several people on these boards have claimed that NAD and PSB work well together.

Perhaps you can organise to audition the B&Ws in your home. I listened to some 601.S3s and they sounded very smooth. That said, there was something about them that I did not like. As a novice in these arenas, I could not put my finger specifically on what that was, but it was certainly subtle and possibly something I could get used to in the long term. I am sorry to say I have no experience with Dynaudio.

Good luck, and do keep us updated with your progress. Is there any chance interconnects are to blame??

Edit: Wodgy raised some excellent points, and possibly refuted my impression that NAD can sound bright in some systems. Hopefully someone else will be able to chime in here.

 

[Lisa]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wodgy Welcome to the complicated world of speakers 1) the speaker's crossover -- some people are very irritated by the sound of a speaker's crossover; I know this is especially true for me if the crossover is around 2 kHz - 2.8 kHz, even really expensive speakers crossed in that range still irritate me

As you said, it is complicated. I don't even know what this means

Quote:

Honestly, 1 and 2 are the most probable. If you decide to not keep these speakers, I'd suggest just getting a nice 2.1 set of computer speakers. You'll save a bundle of money this way too, and you'll be able to get rid of the C350.

Explain that to me. I can hook computer speaker up to a CD player without an amp?
And another problem occurs. This store has an exchange policy, not a return policy.

 

[Lisa]

Quote:

Originally posted by stymie miasma Is there any chance interconnects are to blame??

Don't know. The guys from the store brought it here and hooked everything up. They used cables they say are decent. Cost me ~$4 per meter.(almost 3 feet)

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lisa As you said, it is complicated. I don't even know what this means

The crossover is the part of the speaker behind the scenes that decides whether a given sound should go to the tweeter (the high frequency driver) or the woofer (the low frequency driver). Ideally, a crossover would not be audible, but in reality there are compromises that make some more audible than others, but not necessarily to everyone. Most people agree that the quality of the crossover is as important as the quality of the drivers themselves.

Quote:

Explain that to me. I can hook computer speaker up to a CD player without an amp? And another problem occurs. This store has an exchange policy, not a return policy.

Yes, computer speakers generally have amplifiers built in. Not all, but most. Some even come with a remote control for changing the volume. If you want to use both your tuner and CD player (both good, incidentally), you would need an input switcher, but you can pick one of those up at various places for cheap.

Probably the best thing to do would be to try the exchange policy first. If you find that you can't be satisfied, you could always sell the speakers online (here or eBay or Audiogon), so don't worry too much.

 

[dudlew]

Might I suggest checking the interconnects and cabling?


My brother has a B&W cdm7 or 9t and has a C350 and a rotel RCD 951. He had bought some $100+ monster cables to connect them and the sound was bright and not well meshed.

He tried my brother's DNM reson speaker cable and the sound was more cohesive, open, smoother, and much less fatiguing with better bass weight.

Te cable can make a big difference in this league of components, so give that a look.

D

 

[wallijonn]

try plugging the interconnects "the other way". that is to say, take one cable and swap the ends. then repeat on the other cable, take the cd out plug and change it with the pre-amp in end (changing the cable ends).

this is because some cables have their shields soldered on only one side. you should listen to only one channel at a time. why? what if one cable is "the correct way" and the other cable is not?

then try a cheap set of interconnects and see if the sound changes.

if it still bothers you, get another set of speakers. going in and replacing noisey diodes with fast switching diodes is not something i suggest to people. (make sure that all fluoescent lights are turned off in the house in case it's line noise). speaking of which, do you have the equipment connected to an over- voltage protector? they sometimes introduce noise. try it without the arrestor. (you can also try other outlets - as some have bad wiring in them). (it gives you a chance to listen in other room configurations). obviously listen when the computer is not turned on. the switching power supply may have noise travelling back into the outlets.

 

[mEtal]

Lisa, my opinion follows more of what dd3mon had suggested. That is, I think it's the amp. Dynaudio products in general need a good high current amp to drive them properly. Like typical high-end headphones, you will probably spend about the same amount of cash on the amp as the speakers. Hopefully you will feel better soon so you can go to a nice audio store and demo some of their amps or other speakers. Good luck.

 

[Lisa]

Thirst, about the interconnects. I've plugged in my headphones in the headphone out of the amp and played a CD.
The NADamp+CDplayer give a darker sound than the headphone out of my PCDP. So if the interconnect are making the speakers bright souldn't they make the headphones bright too?
Or is this a conclusion that cannot be made???
I'm new to this so I'm just trying. Might be doing stupid things...


Quote:

Originally posted by wallijonn try plugging the interconnects "the other way". that is to say, take one cable and swap the ends. then repeat on the other cable, take the cd out plug and change it with the pre-amp in end (changing the cable ends).

This I understand.

Quote:

this is because some cables have their shields soldered on only one side. you should listen to only one channel at a time. why? what if one cable is "the correct way" and the other cable is not? then try a cheap set of interconnects and see if the sound changes.

Their shields???
Sorry as I said I'm new to this and I'm starting to figure out what everything means.
Are you talking about the cables from amp to speaker aswell?

Quote:

if it still bothers you, get another set of speakers. going in and replacing noisey diodes with fast switching diodes is not something i suggest to people. (make sure that all fluoescent lights are turned off in the house in case it's line noise). speaking of which, do you have the equipment connected to an over- voltage protector?

A what? Quote:

they sometimes introduce noise. try it without the arrestor. (you can also try other outlets - as some have bad wiring in them). (it gives you a chance to listen in other room configurations). obviously listen when the computer is not turned on. the switching power supply may have noise travelling back into the outlets.

The computer is in another room, on another fuse I think. Now I start to think it might be on the same fuse. But I already listened to the speakers when the computer was off.


I want to thank you guys for all the suggestions and help. I'm at a total loss here, being new to this stuff and I appreciate your help a lot!

 

[Lisa]

Quote:

Originally posted by mEtal Lisa, my opinion follows more of what dd3mon had suggested. That is, I think it's the amp. Dynaudio products in general need a good high current amp to drive them properly. Like typical high-end headphones, you will probably spend about the same amount of cash on the amp as the speakers.

It is a good high current amp. I even got the one with 'a bit more' then I needed for a small room so if I want to move it in future to a larger room , I won't need to replace the amp. Quote:

Hopefully you will feel better soon so you can go to a nice audio store and demo some of their amps or other speakers. Good luck.

Thanks!
It will need a miracle but you'll never know.

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

When all else fails get an overly smooth, and rolled off cheap tube amp.

 

[dudlew]

The Dynaudio speakers are quite revealing and more or less neutral speakers as far as my ears tell me from the audience 50s my brother has. He is using a less powerful amp than you are, a Sony es 3000 with the mathcing shoe box size es 3000 cd player. I dont think the power is a problem.
Also the sonic character of the headphone section may have a different sonic character than the speaker amplifier and hence the difference in sound.

check out revies on your interconnects, see what others say about there sonic character and do the same for the speaker cable. It may not be soley a cable problem, it could be something else, but at least try other cables first before throwing out the amp. As I said before, your system is good enough for you to hear the difference. In my cheapy seperates hodge podge system I hear the difference in cables, even the cheapo ones, so with your higher res system, it could be more pronounced

My 0.5 cents.

D