My outlook on life, phycologists have fun.

[PleasantNoise]

Might seem like an odd topic,
But I'm a terrible one for thinking, it's something I really shouldn't do, so I'm curious to see how other people feel.

In day to day life, I'm a terrible pessimist, I have strong opinions on matters, I tend to be hard to please.
Socially, I get along with people fine, but there's not a single person who I can sit down infront of and say what I'm going to say and get
any sort of response that I feel helps me. Mostly this is because they don't understand my thinking, or I can't explain my thinking in a way
they can understand, mostly the later I imagine.
I'm happy enough to trust someone with my possessions, my safety, and my social life, but I won't tell people what I think, and how I feel.

Anyway, my outlook on life (when I'm not distracted by actually living it) is that Life is pointless.
Theres no reason for me to be alive, no higher power, no greater reason. (Don't be offended if you believe anything different, but I feel that
if I can't say how I think in this day and age, then we've reached a sad point in understanding and social acceptance)
As a result of this the only point I can see in life is to be happy, and content.
But everything in life seems to be part of a predetermined process as decided by people who have lived before me.
School has been a huge part of my life, in my 13th and final year in school, I'm now seen by society as a borderline useful,
uninterested, carefully moulded shell of a person.
Everyday I have to get up and try and lie to myself, telling myself that there is actually a point in me finishing school.
Of course the point is, that if I don't, I'll find it hard to get into uni, employers could view it as poor behaviour or something.
My problem is that from my point of view, it doesn't make me happy, I'm not interested by it any longer, and school doesn't seem to show
any interest in me either.
This feeling of being out of place, put there by someone else who feels this is where I belong, and I don't, but not knowing where I belong
extends to pretty much every aspect of my life.
I know, that if I were to die, it would have almost no effect on the world, it would possibly tear a few people up a bit, but that's it.
I'm of no importance to the world, I never will be. So why do people seem to blindly lie to me, tell me I have potential, to help people, become
a valuable member of society, appreciated , needed. I'm not special, I know that, I don't have the kind of motivation needed to chase at goals that
other people shove down my throat.
And yet, everytime I think about throwing away my current life, and doing something completely different, I can't. Theres a fear of disappointing people.
So I just sit here, thinking, in little circles, that all lead back to the fact that at 17 I've got myself trapped into someones little ideal of who I should be,
and what I should do, and the only thing holding me back, is the way I think, my perception of other people. Who's opinions shouldn't matter, but seem
to have more of an affect on my actions than my own feelings do.

Anyway, I hope anyone who actually reads this understands something of it.
My thought process is a mess, but someone might get me.
Any response is happily welcomed, also understand that there is nothing anyone can say to me that will offend me.
So be honest in any responses, I don't want to read something that seems to be trying to dance around an idea rather than just saying it.

Thanks

 

[arnesto]

Well, you are only 17. You think you may have figured things out, but as you get older you may realize that there is more to how people behave and why people have accepted certain way of doing things.
 
But I think it is good that you are having all these thoughts. Feeling unhappy is part of the process of finding a better way for yourself.
 
Part of what I think is going on, is that you have been a student up until now and you have been following the educational system. But things will change when you graduate or go to college.
 
Once you graduate, you may follow the same patterns of what you have done before.
 
But I think you have 2 ways to go through life.
 
One is to do what people will tell you to do from experience, like your parents.
 
Or the other way is to find out for yourself by constant self analysis and deciding what is best for you.
 
Seems like you are starting on the second way.
 
Also, most people don't like to talk about this stuff because they feel like they don't know you well enough to tell you what is deep in their hearts. But we all go through the same thing. 
 
Another thing that you mentioned is that you feel like your life in meaningless and it doesn't matter.
Well, I think that is true for everybody. It may be a fantasy that you think you will have some big impact on the world.
 
The meaning of life is simple, life has meaning if you choose to give it meaning. Whatever that may be.
 

 

[PleasantNoise]

Thanks Arnesto

I do realize that my outlook will change as I get older.
Otherwise I'd still have the same outlook on life as a baby...
In regards to the self analysis thing, I look back at the things I've done, and I find it hard to tell the things I did because I wanted to,
and the things I did because I was forced, and things that I forced myself to do because I felt I should do them.
I tend to be stubborn, so if I decide I'm doing something, I'll finish it, but if someone else decides I'm doing something, I'll but up a fight about it,
but do it anyway, because of that sense of disappointment I want to avoid.

My aim in life has been (for the last 4 years or so, as I began to develop some sort of awareness of myself and those around me)
That I'm going to live life to be happy, and try to be a good person at the same time.
What it means to be a good person will change with time and experience, but I can try at least.
Also, in regards to that saying 'when you look back on your life, it's the things you didn't do that you'll regret, no the things you did do that you may have regretted at the time'
I think that has more to do with the effect of time changing our perception of things, our memories tend to emphasize the good things, glorify them even, and block out the bad.
Also we accept that you can't undone what you do, so if you learn from it, you can walk away a better person.
So it becomes difficult to regret the things we do.  I've done some stupid things, and I don't regret them, I admit they were stupid, dangerous etc. but it's also true, that you can't
learn from someone elses mistakes, you can only avoid making the same mistake, that's not learning, it's avoiding. (can't remember where I read that, it was somewhere)
 

 

[theindexpage]

This 'outlook' that you have is far less unique than you think among your cohort.
 
In my experience, Most people (including myself) who say that others don't understand them, or are too complex for other people to understand...  are usually simply unwilling to let other people understand (reasons ranging from arrogance, spitefulness, or a need to be unique).
 
I'll be honest. Looking at you and the way you talk, I think you like being unique. Away from mainstream. You express in your uniqueness music choices, your attitudes, your social behaviour, your fashion, and with this post. I don't rule out a genuine call for help and advice, but I tell it like how I see it. 
 
That being said. I get it. In my case, it took a little humility and modesty for me to come eye to eye with those and the world around me. My connections to people beyond my immediate family only became real once I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Only after I acknowledged that others around me were just as complex as me, despite their outward behavior and appearance, did I truly make an effort to let the know me, and try to get to know them.
 
After that, you simply realize the world is a lot less hostile, cold, and meaningless once those true connections are made. Most importantly, you realize that individuality and uniqueness can be preserved despite being a positive social member of society. Value in life soon follows afterwards.
 
If you believe I've got you all wrong. You're entitled to your opinion and me to mine. My sources of my issues as a teen were mostly my inability (unwillingness) to relate to people, so my opinion will of course be colored. But just be aware, introspection is far from being a flawless process, a whole array of biases are ready to preserve your positive self-image. We often lie to ourselves more than we acknowledge. Not saying it's useless. far from it. But this is where reflection with another human being is invaluable. A friend, family member, or counsellor (on a side, there is no shame in seeing a counsellor. The frequency of those assisted by a mental health care professional is greatly under exaggerated) 
 
Good luck.
 
 
 

 

[PleasantNoise]

Quote:

This 'outlook' that you have is far less unique than you think among your cohort.
 
In my experience, Most people (including myself) who say that others don't understand them, or are too complex for other people to understand...  are usually simply unwilling to let other people understand (reasons ranging from arrogance, spitefulness, or a need to be unique).
 
I'll be honest. Looking at you and the way you talk, I think you like being unique. Away from mainstream. You express in your uniqueness music choices, your attitudes, your social behaviour, your fashion, and with this post. I don't rule out a genuine call for help and advice, but I tell it like how I see it. 
 
That being said. I get it. In my case, it took a little humility and modesty for me to come eye to eye with those and the world around me. My connections to people beyond my immediate family only became real once I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Only after I acknowledged that others around me were just as complex as me, despite their outward behavior and appearance, did I truly make an effort to let the know me, and try to get to know them.
 
After that, you simply realize the world is a lot less hostile, cold, and meaningless once those true connections are made. Most importantly, you realize that individuality and uniqueness can be preserved despite being a positive social member of society. Value in life soon follows afterwards.
 
If you believe I've got you all wrong. You're entitled to your opinion and me to mine. My sources of my issues as a teen were mostly my inability (unwillingness) to relate to people, so my opinion will of course be colored. But just be aware, introspection is far from being a flawless process, a whole array of biases are ready to preserve your positive self-image. We often lie to ourselves more than we acknowledge. Not saying it's useless. far from it. But this is where reflection with another human being is invaluable. A friend, family member, or counsellor (on a side, there is no shame in seeing a counsellor. The frequency of those assisted by a mental health care professional is greatly under exaggerated) 
 
Good luck.
 
 
 

you seem to have made alot of assumptions.

I don't feel I'm more complex than other people. I  feel that I fail to understand myself. that's why I'm doing this. for the sake of self enlightenment. I don't give a toss what you think of me.
I'm a name on a screen, that's the beauty of the internet. And you are the same.

I don't do things to be unique. If I felt unique then I would feel I had some sort of value that couldn't be replaced, which as I tend to see life as replaceable, I obviously don't.
This is a forum about audio gear, I listen to music for pleasure. I listen to keep myself relaxed and sane. I listen with headphones so that others don't have to hear what I hear, so that they
don't judge what I listen to, because what I listen to is related to how I feel, not how I want others to percieve me.
I don't remember mentioning my clothes, but I wear them to be decent and  protect myself from the elements. No I don't buy clothes that I feel look bad, that seems pointless.
I buy clothes that function and I feel look ok on me, I don't buy clothes to stand out. plain tshirts are my attempt to not stand out. gives people nothing to look at (I assume at least)

I don't express myself to my family, my relationship with my family is a decidedly cold one. But that's just how I grew up, they're there, but I don't rely on them emotionally.
I rely on my friends emotionally, a few alot more so than others.
My problem is not connecting with other people, it's connecting with myself, I want to see myself eye to eye. That's the point of this exercise.
 
I don't think the world is cold and hostile, I think the world is indifferent, It will take me as I present myself. hence trying to be a good person.
I don't understand your statement "Most importantly, you realize that individuality and uniqueness can be preserved despite being a positive social member of society. Value in life soon follows afterwards.'
Being a positive social member of society should have no effect on 'uniqueness and individuality' so I don't see why you seem to stress that they can be preserved.
that's like saying, 'you can be yourself, and a person too' it doesn't need saying, surely.

I do feel that  'becoming a positive social member of society' is a bit of a sticking point.
In any field, there will always be plenty of people who oppose what I do, and those that feel I'm doing right.
I want to be happy, I don't want to change the world, I don't want to feel like I'm morally superior, or a better person than anyone else, I don't want other people to view me in that way
I just want to be happy, and content, and enjoy what I do.
I can't look back at myself and feel I've done anything 'valuable' I don't think that's something I'll ever be able to do.
I don't feel achievements are something to catalog and measure life by.  No one really cares about what I've done, or what I say I'll do, I judge people as I see them, in the present, so I assume others do the same.

I don't have a positive self image, my image of myself is of a person who has to lie to himself in order to get out of the bed in the morning, and carry out what past members of society have decided is a normal life.
The image of myself I would like to have, is of a person who gets out of bed in the morning, in order to do the things he wants to do, and to enjoy doing them.

Ideally I would like to be able to sit down and talk to myself, but I can't.
talking to others is easy, that's something I've been learning to do since I learned to talk.
Talking to myself is something I've always avoided. because I didn't want to know who I am. But I realize that's not a good thing to do.

 

 

[sphinxvc]

I didn't read your post in it's entirety, it came up formatted weird on my page (sorry?), but I did catch a line in there about there being "no point to life."  You should read Albert Camus' the Stranger (if you haven't already).  Not because it will reveal life's purpose or anything, but because it's a fun, short read largely along the same lines.  

 

[manveru]

 
Quote:

Albert Camus' the Stranger (if you haven't already).  Not because it will reveal life's purpose or anything, but because it's a fun, short read largely along the same lines.  

Seconded. Then The Myth Of Sisyphus and The Rebel if you really want to get into it.
 
 
As to your feelings towards school, I'm right there with you (college student btw). I love learning, which is exactly why I hate school in a lot of ways. I've always felt that today's education system is designed more to get people to "integrate" into society, rather than teach them to be useful and constructive human beings. The focus seems to be on preparing you to "get a job" rather than working on how to solve the world's problems. The books are actually full of propaganda that teach you to perpetuate those problems, e.g. "America is the greatest country in the world," "Nazis and communists are bad," "capitalism is the best." And people judge you based on meaningless grades that have nothing to do with your intelligence or your ability to learn. I would be much more motivated to go and do well if I felt it was for a good reason, rather than feeling like I'm forced to go in order to hopefully become a slave to some corporation someday and make money in order to survive. Well...I don't know what you necessarily think about any of those things, haha, but our emotions appear to be similar at least.

 

[JadeEast]

Two great motivators in life are autonomy and a sense of purpose. Being the age that you are I can understand that you don't feel much of a sense of autonomy. Things change once you start to become more independent from your family and make more autonomous decisions. I do urge you to not discount education as a means to further your personal autonomy. High-school and further education are much different experiences.
 
Regarding a sense of purpose. Your perspective right now is one that is absolutely necessary to develop your own personal understanding of meaning and purpose.  
 
Camus has an interesting perspective, but I think that he needs to been seen in a historical (WWII) perspective as well as part of the history of Philosophy. 

 

[PleasantNoise]

Quote:

 
As to your feelings towards school, I'm right there with you (college student btw). I love learning, which is exactly why I hate school in a lot of ways. I've always felt that today's education system is designed more to get people to "integrate" into society, rather than teach them to be useful and constructive human beings. The focus seems to be on preparing you to "get a job" rather than working on how to solve the world's problems. The books are actually full of propaganda that teach you to perpetuate those problems, e.g. "America is the greatest country in the world," "Nazis and communists are bad," "capitalism is the best." And people judge you based on meaningless grades that have nothing to do with your intelligence or your ability to learn. I would be much more motivated to go and do well if I felt it was for a good reason, rather than feeling like I'm forced to go in order to hopefully become a slave to some corporation someday and make money in order to survive. Well...I don't know what you necessarily think about any of those things, haha, but our emotions appear to be similar at least.

You do sound very similar, I enjoy learning, I don't enjoy school.  I ask questions, and my teachers will just say 'you don't need to know that for your exams'
I've had to tell them that I don't care about my exams, they don't reflect me as a person, they reflect my attitude towards the schooling system I'm in.
A letter on a piece of paper doesn't prove my worth, only that I know how to pass an exam.
5 minutes talking to a person can reveal more than an entire set of exam results in my opinion.
The longer I've been in school the more it becomes clear that we only learn a very few select things, as decided by someone higher up in the system
there are a few teachers who are happy to teach me as I wish to learn, which is what I need for my exams, and anything that I find interesting as well.
unfortunately teachers like this are few and far between.
 


Quote:

Two great motivators in life are autonomy and a sense of purpose. Being the age that you are I can understand that you don't feel much of a sense of autonomy. Things change once you start to become more independent from your family and make more autonomous decisions. I do urge you to not discount education as a means to further your personal autonomy. High-school and further education are much different experiences.
 
Regarding a sense of purpose. Your perspective right now is one that is absolutely necessary to develop your own personal understanding of meaning and purpose.  
 
Camus has an interesting perspective, but I think that he needs to been seen in a historical (WWII) perspective as well as part of the history of Philosophy. 

I'm slightly lost as to how you feel autonomy is a great motivator in life?  The ability to make the right decisions will never be something that motivates me, it's something that will worry me, when I see others making bad decisions...
 
 

 

[ericpwiseguy]

Reading your initial post. I am going to assume our are of Asian descent and and 1st generation
American.... If I'm wrong I apologize...as you claim your your relationships with family ( notably your parents) are cold. Since they have probably even a much tougher life where people work just to eat. I am a first generation American and the ( old world ) was drilled into me my parents wanted. Better life for their children. I lie you live to learn and at 40 still do school bored me I did not go to college and at 17 ( your age ) made some bad choices and paid dearly for those choices from 18-21... 3 years in the school of hard Knox we will leave it at that.

You asked for honesty your problem is simple you have yet to suffer..figure out where your next meal is coming from...

Once you experience pain then and only then can you enjoy this world called life...this is the key...basically the old adage "no pain no gain"

And if you don't want to go to school figure out what you love and your interest and plan on making that a means to enjoy love.

I never have had a boss ...nor gone to college ..I own and run a multi million dollar company... And I enjoy it because of my pain in my life.

Regarding life being pointless... Not everyone can be the next Einstein or cure cancer your life has a purpose first of all your success brings joy to your parents and family (weather they show it or not) and once I had children the same became of me ...I want a better life for them and my purpose is to give them a foundation so when there 17 they can question there purpose like you have done..in that regard you get a A+.

 

[PleasantNoise]

I'm English actually, living in New Zealand, so you got that wrong.
The cold relationship with my family is probably because they're very shy people, Except for my sister, who I talk to the most, but still not alot really.
I'm not sure what you mean by pain. Because people view pain in very different ways.
I suffered from achalasia for about 2 years before I had surgery to fix the problem. during those 2 years between the age of 11 and 13, I gained no weight, for about 6 months anything I tried to eat or drink would never make it to my stomach. I got to a point where I could turn my head too quickly and I would fall over because I was so dehydrated.
That was a pretty crap period of time for me. It actually kept me very focused in regards to what I did, because I was ignoring the problems I had.
 
I don't look at that as suffering though, it was ****, yes, but at the same time, those were cards I was dealt. they weren't something within my power.
I assume by suffering you mean I have to suffer for a mistake I make at some point.

I will be finishing school, I know dropping out is pointless, I just have alot of issues with the schooling system I'm in.
That being said, pointing out problems doesn't offer a solution, so unless I can fix the issues, I'm just going to have to deal with it.

At 17 the thought of children scares me. I don't want to have to think about that until I feel my life is in a stable enough situation that I'll survive the trauma of becoming a parent.
There's also the possibility of not having children, purely because I feel there are enough people in the world, I don't feel any need to pass on my genes (this may change as I get older and more sentimental) and I don't feel comfortable with the idea of being responsible with someone elses life like that.

That being said, I'm 17, my views on children will probably change as I get older.
 

 

[JadeEast]

 
 

I'm slightly lost as to how you feel autonomy is a great motivator in life?  The ability to make the right decisions will never be something that motivates me, it's something that will worry me, when I see others making bad decisions...

Being told what to think, feel, do isn't a situation that most people get enjoyment from or one that motivates them towards anything. It's not necessary that one make the right decisions, but the ability to make decisions about ones actions and thoughts can be motivating. 

 

[PleasantNoise]

Quote:

 
 
Being told what to think, feel, do isn't a situation that most people get enjoyment from or one that motivates them towards anything. It's not necessary that one make the right decisions, but the ability to make decisions about ones actions and thoughts can be motivating. 

maybe it's the realization that you can make your own desicions and the resulting feeling of freedom?

 

[PurpleAngel]

PleasantNoise.
You really remind me of what I was like at 17 (that was 30 years ago).
I never cared for school, I spent all my time (morning, noon & night) reading scf-fi & fantasy novels, about 25-35 books a year (went through all three lord of the Rings books in about one week, 1100 pages).
You do not have to like school based education, think of school education more as something you can use as a filler on a future job resume.
If you can't be happy about stuff, just spend more time complaining about stuff that makes you unhappy.

 

[manveru]

 
Quote:

If you can't be happy about stuff, just spend more time complaining about stuff that makes you unhappy.

Alternatively, if you can't be happy about stuff, rather than deluding yourself into acceptance and "stop complaining," figure out the problem that is holding you back and start doing everything you can to resolve it