[aeolian]

I am looking, and still looking, for a DAC that is "analog, fun and musical". Allow me to share my journey.

I am unable to compare DACs on my system because loans are rare where I live. So, I have to listen to the DACs on the retailers' set up. Songs came from Very Best of Dire Straits. I didn't bring my cds along because it was a spur-of-the moment decision to go listen to DACs and nearly every shop had that cd. It was also a cd I know well.

My listening bias: When I listen to Linda Ronstadt "When you wish upon a star" or Simply Red "For your babies" or Shania Twain "Woman in me", I expect to be moved emotionally. On the Dire Straits album, I pay close attention to So far away and brothers in arms; if the system can bring out the feeling.

Shop 1: CA amp, Mission floorstanders
DAC: CA azur 840 (to stimulate Dacmagic) and MF V-dac (using the 840 as transport)
V-dac edges out the Dacmagic. Romeo and Juliet was rocking good fun to listen to on the V-dac. On the Dacmagic, it was a bit boring. At less than $600, both DACs sound better than my home hifi set up.

Shop 2: Gryphon amps, $15k speakers (didn't get the name)
DAC: Stello DA100 Sig
This was a bad set up. I didn't enjoy the music at all. I can't comment on the quality of the Stello per se.

Shop 3: Marantz transport, $8k pre & power amps for Norway (name too exotic to remember), $multi-k speakers from Canada
DAC: PS Audio DL3
Very impressive set up. Didn't draw me into the music though. Still, I won't cross this off my short-list.

Shop 4: Lavry da11, headphones and a cd player.
The DAC was fresh out the box. Very digital sounding, probably because it hasn't been run in.

Shop 5: Bel Canto 3, Lamm pre-amp, Bel Canto power amps, Thiel speakers. $40k of equipment before counting the hdd/touch panel ($9k) and the connections.
Best rendition of Brothers in Arms I've heard thus far. The thunder in the background sounds very well defined, very crisp. However, may it be a bit too analytical? The salesman said his setup should sound analytical because that was his intention. A bel canto DAC in a different set up should not sound as analytical. I might consider buying it 2nd hand.

Shop 6: System 1: Marantz transport, Amps & speakers from Italy, again I forget the names.
Dacs: CIA VDA-2 ($1250), Beresford TC7520 ($250)
This shop didn't have Dire Straits. So, I picked out a Brian Adams CD. The CIA was better than the Beresford in every way. Tighter bass and Brian's voice was easier to locate whereas on the Beresford, Brian's voice seems somewhat dis-embodied. Is the CIA 5x better than the Beresford? Probably not.

System 2: Northstar extremo dac, 192 transport, merlin speakers.
I played Linda Ronstadt and a jazz instrumental piece. The sound depend on which connection it uses, i.e., I2S, balanced or unbalanced. The same song sounds different on each of these 3 outputs. On the I2S, the sound was very detailed but analytical. A jazz instrumental sounds great. It had a very "being there" feel to the music. However, female vocals were unemotional; I got restless and bored listening. On the balanced output, female vocals were very emotional; Linda sounds very seductive. But, the jazz instrumental was heavy and slow.

When I switched back to the CIA, Linda's voice sounded grainy compared to the Northstar on balanced output. The Northstar is 5.5x the cost of the CIA but is it 5.5x better?

I'm going back next Saturday to audition the model 192 mk2 dac.

 

[recca]

Nice 1st post. Sounds like a fun time looking for a new DAC. I think its great that you're going around listening to these DAC's in action rather than just reading other's description of their sound. It also sounds like you have a decent sized budget.

What is the rest of your system like?

 

[aeolian]

My speakers are Spendor SP1/2E, amps Plinius 9200. About 8 months ago, I upgraded my setup from Mission 740 speakers and Pioneer A400x amps. Now I wish to replace the Rotel RCD-1072. My budget is S$5k (US$3.5k) but I'll be happy to purchase the MF v-dac if it does the job.

 

[recca]

So are you going to keep the Rotel as transport or go computer sourced?

 

[aeolian]

My initial intentions was to go fully computer sourced, via a Squeezebox. After I heard the Northstars on Merlin speakers, I'm not so sure. Compared to the CIA VDA-2 with Synthesis speakers, the Northstar Extremo/192 Transport combi was closer to the sound I seek. Plus, the ability to muck around with different interconnects and upsampling rates appeals to me. If the 192 mk2 DAC sounds similar to the Extremo, I might get the 192 dac/192 transport, connected by both the I2S and AES/EBU cables. The optical (or RCA) connects to the SB. The DAC then connects to the amp with both XLR and RCA cables.

Before listening to the northstars, the idea that cables made a difference was merely something I read about. I don't know if it is just sales voodoo I'm hearing. Could it be the Merlin and Synthesis speakers that made the difference and not the CIA/Northstar DACs? I have to find out before deciding.

 

[rjoseph]

The CIA VDA-2 costs $599 (without the VAC-1 psu). It sells for cheaper in the FS section here.

 

[recca]

The difficult thing about the comparisons you are conducting is that the system matching is different on everything. Especially if you're unfamiliar with the sound of the other components you may not be fully sure what is contributing the sounds. Especially since the Merlins are supposed to be some of the best speakers around.

Regardless, its great that you are taking the time out to listen and judge for yourself.

 

[aeolian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by recca /img/forum/go_quote.gif The difficult thing about the comparisons you are conducting is that the system matching is different on everything.

That's the problem with shopping for hifi stuff. Reviews may not reflect my listening preference and listening to a retailer's setup may not be the answer either.

I've to arrange with the retailer if he'll allow me to compare the Rotel cdp (it is easier than lugging around my speakers and amps) with the CIA VDA-2/VPA-1 and the Northstar 192 dac/transport on the same amps and speakers. Here, the CIA VDA-2/VPA-1 sells for less than S$1300 and the Northstar 192 dac/transport for around 3.5x.

Apart from upgrading my speakers and amps, I've also upgraded my interconnects from Taralabs to Analysis Plus Oval and then to JPS Labs (2nd hand). Yet, the only CDs I can listen to are Yoyo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone and Songs for Joy and Peace. Everything else sounds better on my office set up ($10 Sony headphones into onboard sound chip playing mp3 on winxp and wmp11).

 

[1UP]

You sound like a flat-earther. I'd suggest Naim or Simaudio Moon gear. Some of their CDPs have digital inputs. Naim also have an HD player and a new standalone DAC coming out. You should also look at the Slimdevices Transporter to kill two birds with one stone; it would make the SB3 redundant.

 

[1UP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeolian /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shop 6: System 1: Marantz transport, Amps & speakers from Italy, again I forget the names. Dacs: CIA VDA-2 ($1250), Beresford TC7520 ($250) This shop didn't have Dire Straits. So, I picked out a Brian Adams CD. The CIA was better than the Beresford in every way. Tighter bass and Brian's voice was easier to locate whereas on the Beresford, Brian's voice seems somewhat dis-embodied. Is the CIA 5x better than the Beresford? Probably not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeolian /img/forum/go_quote.gif I compared the Beresford 7520 with the CIA VDA-2/VPA-1 in an A-B comparison. The CIA was clearly better than the Beresford but also 5x more expensive. I can't say if it is 5x better though.

Hmm, wait, that appalling sentence construction and an SB3 front-end /smacks forehead
Damn, lol, you write like someone I know. Welcome back, Herandu/DC Lee/Stanley!

 

[HeatFan12]

Stanley's #1 fan...lol......Get'em 1UP.....

 

[aeolian]

I'm offended, and I don't even know you.

If you read my last post, you can see that I have narrowed my short list to just the Northstar 192 dac/transport. It will cost me $5k; and that is a lot of money to me.

Now, go away and go bother someone else.

 

[1UP]

Yeah, cause you're a humble fish trader, from India, from Greece, times are hard, there's a recession on, yet hey, plonk $5k on a DAC so you can listen to Lista Ronstadt and Dire Straits. I say go for it!

Just ask yourself, is it really 20 TIMES better than the Beresford?

 

[Uncle Erik]

I think you should audition at home. There's no way you can control for all the differences in equipment as well as the listening rooms at the dealers. Moreover, you have no idea how any DAC you decide on will mate with your system. That sounds like a potential waste of $5k to me. If you're going to drop that amount of money, you really need a home audition.

Ask if you can put a deposit on one and take it home. Or ask the salesman to bring it over for an audition while he's there. Any decent retailer will do that. I'd wager a number of online retailers would give you a flexible return policy, too.

What you're doing is giving an impression of the overall system. You won't make a good decision that way.

 

[TheAttorney]

I second Uncle Erik's advice. You need to audition at home. If the dealer doesn't know you well, they may take some persuading - but it will be worth it, especially at those prices.