[zeplin]

my friend recently decided that he was vegetarian. now, i don't know much about the vegetarian life style, but some of the statements that my friend is making about how his life style is the only right one and mine (not being a vegetarian) is wrong and unhealthy. first off, he says vegetarians have a more healthy life than non-V's. here's how i see it, if you eat meat and are over wieght or unhealthy, you shouldn't equate your unhealthy lifestyle with eating meat. it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet and body while being able to eat meat at the same time. it is only when a person eats fatty meat uncontrolably that they are risking over wieght...and that is their own fault. many people also forget about all the other thing they eat...there are countless variables to which contribute to how healthy a person can become. simply put, it comes down to personal decision, which involves that person and no one else when choosing the type of diet they want to live off of (also, many people take for granted the fact that we get to choose and have the opportunity of what we want right in front of us at all times in great abundance). next, my friend says that the reason why our country is in trouble with our water supply is that we have to devote the majority of it to the cattle that we raise for meat. this is simply not true in any way. i have been told by many professors (and was linked to a website, but i can't find where i wrote it down at the moment) that the number one useage of water in our country goes to farming and agriculture. then, my friend tells me it is just plain wrong to eat meat. my belief about this is, we exist because of nature, and nature survives in a way that some species feed off of other species in order for survival. sure in this day and age we could probably live without meet, at least our country can??? but if none of us had the resources we have today, and lived in times when we were like hunter gatherers, it would come back to the same thing...hunting for our food in order for survival. another point, i have heard some scientist say that meat provides certain nutrients that can't be had in any other food. i don't know the truth to that, but if anyone knows the real answer, please say so. but i do know one thing, a healthy piece of white chicken breast meat is extremely healthy and good for the body. finally, the most absurd statement my friend has made in relation to his new belief is, "the world would be a much better place than it is now if people were all vegetarians." that is totally ridiculous, i think, and has nothing to do with being a vegetarian(it has to do with over population)...but that's another whole issue...one that my friend has not had the care to research! the problem is, he still eats eggs, cheese, pasta, and drinks milk,...all of which contradict his beliefs in the first place. i say to him, if you're going to become a vegetarian, you might as well be a full blown vegan and 100% stick up for what you believe in.

i of course still love my friend...he is my best friend, but i can't understand why, in a matter of a few days, has absolutely disregarded any of the factual and opinionated arguments i've made to him. actually, the type of person he is explains why. he just happens to be one of the most stubborn people i've ever known in my lifetime. the kind of person that argues for the sake of arguing.

anyways, what are the opinions of all you more knowledgeable head-fiers out there? my friend is of course entitled to his own opinions, but i think some of the facts that he perceives as true facts, are in fact wrong and not at all true. how many vegans are here on head-fi? if you will, present your case to us. and how many people hate it when others preech about a certain belief? maybe i'm totally wrong in my beliefs and will become a vegan myself??? who knows. but i'd surely like to hear from the other side of the spectrum a little more...my friend does not seem to provide me with adequate debating and factual material.

 

[Xander]

MEAT is bad. It can kill you. You can die.

There are safer things to eat, for you, and the animals.

SELL YOUR HEADPHONES AND FEED THE CHILDREN.

Unless you ofcourse, live in the world of Douglas Adams, and know of a species that is quite fond of being eaten, who happens to know of vegetables that arent.

I'll just nip off and shoot myself now!


Good Day.

 

[spaceman]

PETA.......People Eating Tasty Animals.

 

[MusicLover]

This post was deleted because it was thoughtless and ended up offending too many damn people!

 

[strohmie]

You seem to forget - the true reason everyone in the world is fat is because of McDonalds. That's why they're being sued.

As for vegetarianism and vegetarians themselves...back in the day I worked in a health food store. My mother is a vegan, which means that she neither eats meat nor meat products (milk, cheese, eggs...). It gave me some insights, but it should be noted that I have no interest in vegetarianism at this point. The effect of eating meat on one person's body varies from person to person, specifically how one absorbs cholesterol and handles fat consumption. Red meat, unless quite lean, isn't the most healthy thing in the world but (like almost all things) can be beneficial in proper doses. Vegan and vegetarian propaganda put out by some sources hurts the credibility of meat products, sometimes warranted and sometimes not. Specifically, I've seen the claim about cattle sucking up the water supply before.

Meat doesn't specifically supply nutrients not found elsewhere...it does contain nutrients that are beneficial, though. Red meat is a great source of protein and iron, and can be healthy if it's relatively lean. White meat chicken is quite healthy...fish can be so long as you avoid some of the more fatty varieties and those that contain mercury (Omega 3 fatty acids from salmon and such are believed to be quite beneficial). If everyone in the world were vegetarian, we'd have a much higher concentration of anemics and women with osteoporosis. Damned if I know how vegetarianism has anything to do with overpopulation...

 

[MusicJunkie]

Eating meat doesn't make you fat, eating carbohydrates does.

MJ

 

[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally posted by MusicLover Let me start out by saying that you need to eat meat to live healthy. It is required for a good and balanced diet. It does in fact have nutrients and other good stuff which are in no other foods. It is actually bad to be a vegetarian. Contrary to your friend's beliefs, it is very unhealthy. If you have ever seen a 100% vegetarian who has been that way for a while, they are usually skinny and pale, and weaker than most other people.

Sorry, gotta dispute this. You do not *need* to eat meat to live healthy. You can replace most useful nutrients via suppliments and eating certain foods in good proportion. My mother has been a vegan for 35 years, and is the healthiest person I know (besides her cholesterol, but that's genetic).

It isn't bad to be a vegetarian. It isn't bad to be a vegan. And it isn't bad to eat meat either. One just needs to have a damned brain about it.

MusicJunkie, that I can actually agree with. ^_^

 

[Ebonyks]

The arguement that vegitables are more natural from an evolutionary standpoint is just plain wrong. People who take that life postition tend to neglect the fact that in the last 100 years, the human diet has been sigificantly modified, and if anything is to blame, it should be for products like sugars, consumed in a methoid alien to people only a few generations ago, genetically modified foods, and artifical agents, like dyes and persertives. If anything, vegitables are more prone to these sorts of deviations from the ancient human diet. All of this is irrelevant when you look at the health of people as opposed to one hundred years ago. People are bigger and stronger than they ever were before. So, i'll continue to indulge in the modern diet, full of chemically enhanced foods

 

[spaceman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Music Lover Let me start out by saying that you need to eat meat to live healthy.

I do eat meat, but I have to disagree with you here. Yes, a lot of vegetarians are unhealthy, but that is not due to being a vegetarian, just a poor diet planner. The ADA (American Dietetic Association) maintains that a well-planned (this is the key) vegetarian diet offers nutrition and health benefits to adults, in general. Reducing, or even eliminating meat from the diet does reduce the risk of heart disease, high-blood pressure, diabetes, obesity and some cancers. Most vegetarians get enough protein from other sources such as dairy, whole grains, nuts, and vegetables, the problem comes from too many empty-calorie foods, creating less energy/protein intake, thus the skinny, pale, sick looking veggie. If they educate themselves first, there shouldn't be any problems. A great example is the millions of vegetarians in Asia, and most are extremely healthy because they know how to balance their dietary intake.

 

[Patrickhat2001]

In order to be healthy it is not necessary to eat meat, but it is easier to be healthy if you do eat meat. The reason for this is meat is full of nutrients (iron especially) and meat (depending on the type, of course) is likely the most nutritous thing you could eat if judged by the number of nutrients it supplies alone. That doesn't mean that you don't need the other nutrients that other foods provide it's just that meat provides the best nutrient bang-per-portion. The problem comes when you eat meat with a lot of fat in it. The fat found in meat is saturated fat which we all know is unhealthy. So the trick is to eat the meats with the least fat (which means staying away from beef, in most cases). Stick to low-fat meats like chicken and low-fat fish, etc and it is very easy to live a healthy meat eating diet. It's easier to be healthy eating a diet such as this than it is to eat a vegeatarian diet (and especially a vegan diet) but that doesn't mean that vegetarian diets can't be healthy--you just have to know your foods.


I've been a vegetarian for five years so I like to think that I'm pretty experienced in this subject--not saying that I know it all though. I, myself, am not a vegetarian for health reasons--I am a resource vegetarian. I believe this world cannot support 6 billion plus people eating meat--that's just too many animals to breed, feed and slaugther--our world just can't support it, it would just use too many resources. So I choose not to eat meat in the hope that those who really need it more than I do (like pregnant anemic women in third world countries) can have it. I get alone just fine without it. And besides one cannot overestimate the pleasure (or ego trip is more like it) that one gains from self sacrifice.

By the way, isn't it funny that, myself being a vegetarian, have a carnivore as my avatar (not really, I know, just though I'd throw that in).

 

[sapphiremodena]

Quote:

Originally posted by MusicLover Let me start out by saying that you need to eat meat to live healthy. It is required for a good and balanced diet. It does in fact have nutrients and other good stuff which are in no other foods. It is actually bad to be a vegetarian. Contrary to your friend's beliefs, it is very unhealthy.

I had a talk with my brother about this a short while ago, (keep in mind that neither of us are all too knowledgeable on the subject) but he said that it is possible to get almost everything you need from vegetables alone, but it is very, very, very difficult to do so.

I personally think it's morally good to be a vegetarian, but in terms of health, it's not the safest thing to do.

When I'm older I think I'll try eating less meat, but I can't ever see myself phasing it out of my diet completely. It just wouldn't be healthy. My sister has a few vegetarian friends and yes, they are indeed pale and skinny and sometimes very weak.




I like using italics today.

 

[KJ869]

like some columnist few years ago in finland said
"Meat makes you fat and theres madcow diseases and all, chicken has salmonel, fish has quicksilver, water is full of poison from waste, air is poluted, and vegetables genes have been messed with who knows what effects. Nobody should be alive. Either this is continious miracle, or theres something wrong in the picture." So stop worrying what you eat because the fact is: We all are going to DIE

I myself realy couldnt care less about vegetarians and animal activists that preach. My hobby is to go laught at animal activist demostations.

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

Quote:

Originally posted by MusicJunkie Eating meat doesn't make you fat, eating carbohydrates does. MJ

Well, that's the way I pretty much see it also. Ask any fat person what they eat. I bet they don't say 8 - 8oz. glasses of water, skinless boiled/broiled chicken breast, cottage cheese, skim milk, and green beans.
I think they would say things like: Coke, Pepsi, doughnuts, candy, bread, potato chips, french fries, sugary juices, etc.

 

[FalconP]

Another common fallacy peached by die-hard veggies is that the human body is designed for a vegetarian instead of a meat-based diet -- but when I ask 'how ?' no one has ever been able to give me a specific and convincing answer.

And, sure enough, I can't think of one myself -- our anatomy is so different from that of dedicated herbivores: we lack the large numbers of continuously-growing molar teeth with which horses grind grass, or the front-tooth space that cows use to hold roughage. We don't have a multi-chambered stomach filled with cellulose-digesting bacteria; and to absorb the nutrient from grass, we need the long intestine of a sheep.

Of course, these shotcomings do not necessary stop us from being a dedicated herbivore; a giant panda does exactly that -- but then a giant panda spends sixteen hours a day chewing bamboo; the average human can only dream he could afford that.

But then, we humans don't make good dedicated meat-eaters either (no carnassial teeth, no biochemical pathway to synthesise vitamin C on our own). Our anatomy simply is not adapted to any kind of diet in particular -- and in this sense, we are like pigs

Veggies blame all kinds of disease on meat-eating -- when SARS struck Hong Kong earlier this year, people blamed it on meat-eating (the consumption of certain species of domesticated civet cats, to be exact). But think about it -- many species of plants are poisonous too, some of the poisons can acculmulate in the body. And -- in cases your vegetarian urges lead you fight against a gang of monkeys to gain access to a plot of banana trees, you'll end up catching all sorts of monkey viruses too.

 

[FalconP]

Quote:

Originally posted by zeplin finally, the most absurd statement my friend has made in relation to his new belief is, "the world would be a much better place than it is now if people were all vegetarians."

The argument that "Vegetarianism makes the world a better place" may be based on the fact that takes less land and human resources to produce the same amount of vegetable-based protein and calories than meat-based protein and calories, and hence the planet will be able to sustain a larger number of people if they were all vegetarians. There is only theoretical truth in this statement, however -- in the modern world, the supply of crop is driven not by the capacity of the land, but by economic considerations -- any ideas how much crop is destroyed per year in order to keep prices up and keep farmers wealthy?