My first review - the Sennheiser HD650s
Jan 30, 2010 at 12:30 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 40

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I've been on Head-Fi for almost a year now, I thought I'd make my contribution.

My headphone mini story, skip if you like:

*-
Curiosity made me purchase Shure SE530s, discomfort made me sell them.
A lack of headphones made me get Sennheiser CX95s, upgraditis made me get Sennheiser IE8s, then Sennheiser HD650s.
Reviews made me purchase an iBasso P3+, HD650 reviews made me get a Little Dot MK VII. Curiosity pushed me to go balanced with a Cambridge Audio DACmagic, and a cable from Double Helix Cables.
-*

When I started at this website, I knew little (about) music, and nothing of headphones. Thanks to Head-Fi, this has changed. I can't thank this community enough for how you have enhanced my listening experience, and as a result, my life.

My current listening setup is as follows:
Windows 7 -> foobar2000 -> ASIO4ALL -> Onboard TOSLINK -> Cambridge Audio DACmagic -> Little Dot MK VII -> Sennheiser HD650

I will start with comfort/physical features:

There is a well-known apparent clamping force for this headphone, I would like to confirm this, as well as that it can be partly resolved by fully extending the headband, and leaving a large object between the cups in place of your head. I will likely need to do this again.

The pads aren't particularly soft, although my ears already touch the driver foam which I find irritating, so softer pads would likely worsen this, and make the clamping force more apparent.

I would say these two factors make this set inappropriate for people with headaches
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The hinge on the left earcup is creaky when moved slowly, so if the cable moves it, or you touch the earcup to adjust it.

The cable is flexible, and sufficiently long. I get up often, and having long hair, (which takes a lot of hair adjusting when you put them on so no hair blocks the cups), I prefer to leave them on when I go around the house.
I take out the cable as it is simpler to plug back in that the individual earcup wires, which slip out easily enough not to damage the sockets when you snag the wire on a chair arm or step on it.

These are less plasticky than the pictures suggest, but not as solid as the Shure SRH840, which are much sturdier than I assumed.

It is worth hanging these on something, or keeping these in the box to avoid paint scratching or chipping, on the plastic OR grills.

The HD580s (which I tried on a different system so I can't compare them) are much lighter.

The sound (all lossless for this review):

To start off, I would like to mention what I feel has improved in balancing (while at the same time adding a DAC for) these headphones:

The bass extends deeper, so I can feel the low bass in my neck (and my tummy slightly). Better instrument separation. The impact of sounds has improved, and I can pinpoint them more easily. There is more detail. The soundstage is more 3d.


About the headphones in general:
I can see the sound in a slightly holographic sense now, especially if I close my eyes.
Sometimes, when a sound is coming from far away, it sounds distant, I believe this is called a "wide" soundstage; unfortunately it does not sound entirely real, and only seems to come from up to two feet away. The exception to this is in binaural recordings.
It is interesting to hear a pick move over different guitar strings now.

Bass drums actually hit your ears with a convincing impact.
Bass goes DEEP, I can feel it in my neck/throat, the vibrations are physical, and I am glad to say that the headphones do not vibrate with them, even though the HD650s are mainly of plastic construction.
Beats and basslines in electronic and trance music are palpable.
A bass guitar will stand out separate from guitar, and have an actual identity in songs, unlike with IEMs I have heard.
The only drawback to this is in pop/folk, where bass tone with this depth can be innapropriate.

Vocals are clear, although the HD650s slight sibilance can bring vocals inside your head if they are not already there from the recording, which is not to my tastes.
The sibilance can be fatiguing at higher volumes, and I find it distracting when there are either vocals or percussion.
Without this, vocals would sound very smooth, although this does not make music unenjoyable. It can be slightly metallic with vocals.
I can say what it does for edgy voices can be unpleasant for some voices (Alter Bridge), while adding to others (System Of A Down), it isn't a big issue.

The soundstage is wide, so it can be quite fun with music with beats alternating between hard left and right.

Trebly and percussive sounds have a more convincing soundstage, sounding realistically about a foot further away than vocals or bass. At times I feel like looking to see if for e.g. a xylophone is actually there.

What I like (in no particular order):

Solid, realistic representation of percussive sound
Deep bass
Airiness
Wide soundstage
Clear vocals, with nice tone
I can pinpoint sounds
The headphones fit well
Vocals sound "big"
Definitely good for trance
Reverberating and echoing noises can be properly heard

What I don't like (in no particular order):

Sibilance brings sounds closer in
I would prefer more warmth for vocals/guitars (this might not be the case with a tube amp or different DAC)
My ears touch the foam on the inside (this might not be the case when I get Jmoney or PCX450 pads)
The soundstage is wider than it is deep
The pressure they exert on your head can cause tension
Can be fatiguing


What I would like for my next pair of headphones:
A BIG soundstage
Much less/no sibilance/fatigue
Better clarity
Less boomy bass that extends deeper (maybe with a bit more push, but only when needed like with dubstep and trance)
Bigger, softer pads
Less clamping force, while staying on my head better


I look forward to your opinions, and any recomendations on reading material, and possible upgrades on my headphones, or amp/DAC.

Thanks for reading
k701smile.gif
,

Reza H
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 1:13 AM Post #3 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by P4Z /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What I would like for my next pair of headphones:
A BIG soundstage
Much less/no sibilance/fatigue
Better clarity
Less boomy bass that extends deeper (maybe with a bit more push, but only when needed like with dubstep and trance)
Bigger, softer pads
Less clamping force, while staying on my head better



Maybe the HD800s?
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Jan 30, 2010 at 1:27 AM Post #4 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by P4Z /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There is a well-known apparent clamping force for this headphone, I would like to confirm this, as well as that it can be partly resolved by fully extending the headband, and leaving a large object between the cups in place of your head. I will likely need to do this again.


Isn't it difficult to remove your head first? I tried it and my head just wouldn't lift off.
smily_headphones1.gif


The clamping force will lessen quite rapidly, and the ear pads will become softer. Rely on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by P4Z /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The hinge on the left earcup is creaky when moved slowly, so if the cable moves it, or you touch the earcup to adjust it.


A common problem which can be solved with a little vaseline or any viscous substance (I used a drop of motor oil). It's caused by the plastic surfaces binding where the armatures meet the earcups.


Quote:

Originally Posted by P4Z /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The cable is flexible, and sufficiently long. I get up often, and having long hair, (which takes a lot of hair adjusting when you put them on so no hair blocks the cups)


Get a haircut.
smily_headphones1.gif


Just a couple of remarks. The sibilance is likely caused by insufficient burn-in. The 650s are not usually sibilant in comparison to other phones, though not everyone equally loves the treble (it's been called 'coloured').

May I say how well written your review is. It's not often one is as struck by the literary quality of a review as I was by yours. Hope to see more reviews (and maybe a novel or two) in the future.
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Jan 30, 2010 at 3:29 AM Post #5 of 40
@ vkvedam Thank you for reading

@ pp312 THANKS..wow..
I will try a lubricant, I hadn't thought of it..
These have been burned in way 400 hours though.
The clamping should go down if I stick some books between in tonight, enough so that it doesn't bother me, it's hardly bad when I'm relaxed, but when my (perpetual) headaches get bad, or I get neck pain, I can't deal with it, hopefully this will sort it out.

@ peking duck again, thanks for reading my review, I would definitely try the HD800s, but they are a LITTLE out of my price range
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, and I fear hearing them might ruin my current experience until I move to the next level in gear. The descriptions DO sound about right for my ears however, as long as the highs are not too forward.
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 3:40 AM Post #6 of 40
Nice review, P4Z!

I have pretty much the same set-up, myself: Dacmagic > MK VII > 650

I also experienced an increase in sibilance when I initially balanced the phones and started using the MK VII. After putting many hours on the amp this issue has dissipated substantially, to the point that I haven't even thought about it lately.
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 4:44 AM Post #7 of 40
P4Z, you've got a long way already in the headfi world.
I think its time first to cherish your current setup cos I assume its a pretty setup for a headfi fanatic.
Congratulations!
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 5:19 AM Post #8 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nice review, P4Z!

I have pretty much the same set-up, myself: Dacmagic > MK VII > 650

I also experienced an increase in sibilance when I initially balanced the phones and started using the MK VII. After putting many hours on the amp this issue has dissipated substantially, to the point that I haven't even thought about it lately.



Oh it's the amps burn-in? I see. Well I'll connect my Denon DVD player to the DACmagic and leave my rig burning in on my Drukqs album when I'm not using my headphones on the PC, which I think has a decent range of sounds which is what burning in audio equipment really needs right? (I actually think the album is amazing, and great fun to listen to).

I'm considering either upgrading to a better pair of headphones (trying before buying of course, then trading in/selling mine to go towards the costs), or getting a second pair of headphones to compliment the HD650s (which I would have balanced).

For a second pair I am considering:

Audio Technica AD2000
Ultrasone PRO 900
Grado RS1 or HF2
Sony SA5000
Beyerdynamic DT880 600Ω

Considering my review, should I avoid any of those ^, and what would you recommend as an overall upgrade (if it's only a sidegrade and costs more than the AD2000 I can't get it at the moment).

Thanks
k701smile.gif
.
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 11:00 AM Post #9 of 40
Nice review
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This must be the most widely known budget setup to going balanced haha
"DacMagic > Ld Mk VII"
Haha.
Personally going that path too :p
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 12:43 PM Post #11 of 40
The HD650s are kinda like the IE8s big brother. They don't have the issues I found with the IE8s, like where certain (powerful bass for example, like the bass in Black Sweat) sounds couldn't be represented properly. The sound is much bigger and more detailed. If you like the IE8s and want something better, I don't think you'll be disappointed, the transition was very natural for me.
I have found you should not only pick reasons you don't like headphones to choose others, but consider what you have learned about music in general from that pair
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Jan 30, 2010 at 4:26 PM Post #13 of 40
subscribed
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 4:34 PM Post #14 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle Eye /img/forum/go_quote.gif
subscribed


LOL
 
Jan 30, 2010 at 6:37 PM Post #15 of 40
Nice review man,but I have a question,what do you mean by the soundstage have no depth or not so good?one of the reasons I sold the k701 is because the soundstage was very wide and the depth was dissapointing to say the least,it made for an unnatural feel to my ears.do you hear the depth issue in all genres or some?I am awaiting for my hd650 in transit
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