My first open back headphones. Need help and recommendation.

[Akhil7j]

Hello Head-Fi community.
 
I've been watching and reading the reviews of open-back headphones for quite sometime and was thinking to making my purchase based on the videos and reviews. However, the more I read and watched, the more I got confused.
 
Alright, let me first introduce myself and how I ended up buying an open back headphones. My name is Akhil and I am from New Delhi, India. From the past 1 year I am living in Nairobi, Kenya because I was sent here on assignment by my company (IBM). I am not an audiophile at all and don't understand many technical terms of sound engineering and science.
 
I love music and listen to it for long hours. From the past 6-7 years I am listening music from Hi-Fi system and before that, it was from the multimedia speakers. When my Hi-Fi journey started I bought Dali Concept 6 loudspeakers for music and movies but then sold them to buy Epos M22i. Been 4 years enjoying them with Creek AMP.
 
Those were my bachelor days and used to enjoy music straight from speakers. And now, I can only listen for 30 mins if my kid allows.
 
I didn't spend much money or time in headphones, though always had this fantasy of listening to some reference class open back. My first headphones were Sennheiser CX400 In-Ear which I enjoyed almost for 2 years but then I lost them in a taxi unfortunately. Then my second purchase was Sennheiser IE6 In-Ear but after 6-8 months I sold them for an upgrade. Somehow, I didn't enjoy them much. If i remember well, I sold them back in 2011. Till 2011, I was just reading reviews in Amazon.com but then google showed me Head-Fi. A great source of headphone information and reviews. My third purchase was ATH-M50s based on the reviews in Head-Fi and cost of it. I bought them with Fiio E11 without knowing if M50s actually require an AMP or not.
 
Actually auditioning Headphones in India is nearly impossible. I've not seen a place where I can go and demo them so I used to just go with the reviews and buy them from Amazon.com if someone from my company is coming to India from US (a common story or Indian techie).
 
I enjoyed my ATH-M50s for quite sometime. From 2012 till 2016 but finally sold them again for 2 reasons. 1st, ear fatigue due to closed back. 2nd, my ears I think now like neutral or somewhat laid back sound. I haven't tried the open back headphones yet but I could make out from the reviews that being open, the soundstage will be wide and airy and less ear fatigue.
 
Problem in Kenya is, there is no Hi-Fi dealer or showroom where I can audition. I can only watch/read reviews and order them from Amazon US to get delivered here. I have shortlisted some based on the reviews and tech specs but have no idea in reality how they would sound.
 
Sennheiser HD600
Sennheiser HD650
AKG K702
HiFiMAN HE400s
Philips Fidelio X2
 
Music preference: Bollywood (Indian), Pink Floyd, Eric Clapton, Dire Straits, Fleetwood Mac, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Jazz, Blues, Female Vocal, etc...
 
I really need your suggestions and recommendations before I spend money. 
 
PS:Sorry for write a huge post...

 

[cel4145]

Also look into AKG K7XX. They are a Massdrop exclusive, and I think (not sure) that Massdrop has a freight forwarding option for international purchases.

 

[Akhil7j]

In a review I saw in YouTube, the reviewer said 7xx and 702 are actually the same. The sound signature is exactly the same. Is it?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[cel4145]

The K7XX is based on the K702 Anniversary Edition, not the regular K702.

Are the same? I don't know. Haven't heard the K702 Annies. But if you google with term "head-fi" you will likely find discussion of it. And certainly somewhere in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/743280/the-akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-thread

 

[Monsterzero]

If youre looking for an airy open wide soundstage I'd cross the HD600/650 off he list.They have next to zero soundstage.

I would recommend either AKG 7XX or Philips Fidelio X1/X2 from the ones you listed.

7XX will need a pretty good amp,and will give you a nice clean neutral sound w/ wide soundstage.

X1/X2 wont need an amp.It has much more bass than the 7XX but its more recessed in the mids.It too has a nice wide soundstage.

 

[Akhil7j]

  If youre looking for an airy open wide soundstage I'd cross the HD600/650 off he list.They have next to zero soundstage.

I would recommend either AKG 7XX or Philips Fidelio X1/X2 from the ones you listed.

7XX will need a pretty good amp,and will give you a nice clean neutral sound w/ wide soundstage.

X1/X2 wont need an amp.It has much more bass than the 7XX but its more recessed in the mids.It too has a nice wide soundstage.

Thanks a lot for your response. It was an eye opener because 600 and 650 were on my top list. Saw your profile and your music preference is pretty much the same I have. If you recommend AKG 7XX, I will keep that in my list for sure then.
 
For AMP/DAC, I forgot to mention I have shortlisted Shiit Magni/Modi stack.
 

The K7XX is based on the K702 Anniversary Edition, not the regular K702.

Are the same? I don't know. Haven't heard the K702 Annies. But if you google with term "head-fi" you will likely find discussion of it. And certainly somewhere in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/743280/the-akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-thread

 
I actually never understood the mystery of AKG 7XX. Its mentioned in so many reviews but I never saw it in AKG official website. http://www.akg.com/pro/headphones/professional-headphones.
 
A youtube reviewer "Z reviews" said 7XX is actually based on 702. Was just browsing and checking 702 in Amazon and found in an answer that 702 Anniversary edition is Austria made and normal 702 is china made. Now whether the quality is degraded, I'm not sure. The 7xx is the Austria one based on 702 Anni edition. 
 
The 7XX is not available in Amazon. The Massdrop edition has ended already and I have to request and wait for next. Even in Massdrop the saw the image of 7xx box and zoomed it to read "Made in China".
 
From Massdrop:-
In 2012, AKG released the 65th anniversary edition of their K702 to instant acclaim. Built with a bass boost, improved comfort, and matched transducers, the limited edition K702 became a legend in the audiophile community for its sound and build quality. Following the success of the Q701 drop in June, we asked AKG if we could configure our own edition of the K702 65th, and they agreed based on their faith in the Massdrop community. Configured by Massdrop, manufactured by AKG, and made possible by you, the AKG K7XX Massdrop Limited Edition Headphones bring you rare sound at an even rarer price.

 

[buke9]

I think without a amp HD's are not a good choice and don't know the E-11 but I did have a E-12 and it could power just about anything . Powering and sounding good can be two different things though. I have heard the 7xx and 702a and both are very nice but I heard both amped. I own the 400S's and I think they are close to the Akg's but I like the mids and bass more on the 400's and they sound good without an amp also but I mostly listen from a good Dap or thru my desktop setup. This is just my opinion and as always YMMV.

 

[Akhil7j]

I think without a amp HD's are not a good choice and don't know the E-11 but I did have a E-12 and it could power just about anything . Powering and sounding good can be two different things though. I have heard the 7xx and 702a and both are very nice but I heard both amped. I own the 400S's and I think they are close to the Akg's but I like the mids and bass more on the 400's and they sound good without an amp also but I mostly listen from a good Dap or thru my desktop setup. This is just my opinion and as always YMMV.

 
Sorry I forgot to mention that the DAC and AMP i have finalised are Shiit Stack Modi/Magni. Even if the headphone I select has low impedance, I will still buy the desktop USB DAC. Source would either be my Macbook USB or planning to buy a Raspberry Pi which would stream the FLACs from my Synology NAS.

 

[buke9]

Sorry I forgot to mention that the DAC and AMP i have finalised are Shiit Stack Modi/Magni. Even if the headphone I select has low impedance, I will still buy the desktop USB DAC. Source would either be my Macbook USB or planning to buy a Raspberry Pi which would stream the FLACs from my Synology NAS.

Well that changes things. All you mentioned will work for you. Then it depends on sound signature you want and that will be harder as everyone perceives sound a bit different. I might like something you hate. I like a bit of a less dark headphone and found the X-2 to be a bit warm for my liking along with the 650 but would pic the 650 as it is more resolving to me. I still like my 400S's over the bunch as I like the planar sound but that is me. That being said it will still be up to you as it seams you are going to be taking a shot in the dark. You will find as many that like one as hates it. No one can tell you which will be best just what they like. As far as airy and soundstage I would go Akg's 702 or 7xx . If you want something a little more fun that I think would help out in movies is the 400S with Focus A pads . This is just my opinion .

 

[Monsterzero]

  Thanks a lot for your response. It was an eye opener because 600 and 650 were on my top list. Saw your profile and your music preference is pretty much the same I have. If you recommend AKG 7XX, I will keep that in my list for sure then.
 
For AMP/DAC, I forgot to mention I have shortlisted Shiit Magni/Modi stack.
 
 
I actually never understood the mystery of AKG 7XX. Its mentioned in so many reviews but I never saw it in AKG official website. http://www.akg.com/pro/headphones/professional-headphones.
 
A youtube reviewer "Z reviews" said 7XX is actually based on 702. Was just browsing and checking 702 in Amazon and found in an answer that 702 Anniversary edition is Austria made and normal 702 is china made. Now whether the quality is degraded, I'm not sure. The 7xx is the Austria one based on 702 Anni edition. 
 
The 7XX is not available in Amazon. The Massdrop edition has ended already and I have to request and wait for next. Even in Massdrop the saw the image of 7xx box and zoomed it to read "Made in China".
 
From Massdrop:-
In 2012, AKG released the 65th anniversary edition of their K702 to instant acclaim. Built with a bass boost, improved comfort, and matched transducers, the limited edition K702 became a legend in the audiophile community for its sound and build quality. Following the success of the Q701 drop in June, we asked AKG if we could configure our own edition of the K702 65th, and they agreed based on their faith in the Massdrop community. Configured by Massdrop, manufactured by AKG, and made possible by you, the AKG K7XX Massdrop Limited Edition Headphones bring you rare sound at an even rarer price.

HD600s and 650s are good headphones,but all the sound is between your ears,essentially no soundstage whatsoever.

Yep the 7XX is Chinese built....its not the sturdiest headphone Ive ever owned but as long as you treat it right,you should be fine.
However I will warn you the Magni/7XX combo is not a good one IMO.Some may disagree,but it leaves the bass region a bit ragged.To be clear the 7XX is NOT an easy headphone to drive correctly .

And to further clarify my headphones and their role in my setup,I use the AKG 7XX as a change of pace headphone.Its the exact opposite of most my others,neutral,detailed,a bit bass light.
It probably gets the least amount of headtime of any of my headphones.

My go-to cans for metal and rock are my HE-500s and ATH AD2000s.Like the 7XX,theyre not easy to drive,so I wouldnt recommend the Magni for those either.Neither have great soundstage,but if your primary music is the same as mine then why chase soundstage?Rock/metal have very little inherent soundstage anyways.

I think your best bet is X1s or X2s,though theyre not great for rock/metal...for bass heavy music,gaming and movies theyre tough to beat at the price point,and the Magni will drive them effortlessly.

Or you can rethink your amping and try for a different calibre headphone

 

[buke9]

Like I said . I don't like the X-2's others think there great. That will be up to you to decide.

 

[cel4145]

To be clear the 7XX is NOT an easy headphone to drive correctly .

I think that's a very subjective evaluation. While certainly they require more power than a DAP or phone can provide, it doesn't seem like most people in the K7XX thread are finding them some strangely difficult headphone to pair with an amp.

 

[Monsterzero]

I think that's a very subjective evaluation. While certainly they require more power than a DAP or phone can provide, it doesn't seem like most people in the K7XX thread are finding them some strangely difficult headphone to pair with an amp.

Pretty much everything in this hobby is subjective.....

That being said,its impossible to unhear what you once were ignorant to.Im sure there are thousands of people doing K7XX+Magni,and are quite happy with the results.I find that combo leaves the bottom end loose and ragged when compared to when I drive them with my other amps/receivers.

 

[cel4145]

Pretty much everything in this hobby is subjective.....


That being said,its impossible to unhear what you once were ignorant to.Im sure there are thousands of people doing K7XX+Magni,and are quite happy with the results.I find that combo leaves the bottom end loose and ragged when compared to when I drive them with my other amps/receivers.

I was responding to your sweeping generalization of "To be clear the 7XX is NOT an easy headphone to drive correctly ." Seems plenty of people don't find that to be a problem, and they do listen to the K7XX with a lot different amps, as can be seen from following the K7XX thread for the last couple of years.

That being said, maybe the problem is that it's difficult to unimagine what you have heard once you think you have heard it and all of the other people are hearing clearly

 

[Monsterzero]

I was responding to your sweeping generalization of "To be clear the 7XX is NOT an easy headphone to drive correctly ." Seems plenty of people don't find that to be a problem, and they do listen to the K7XX with a lot different amps, as can be seen from following the K7XX thread for the last couple of years.

That being said, maybe the problem is that it's difficult to unimagine what you have heard once you think you have heard it and all of the other people are hearing clearly

Gotcha,Im imagining it....

Perhaps look at the overall summary on this site of the K7XX

http://www.head-fi.org/products/akg-k7xx

"
Pros: “very competitive pricing, extremely large soundstage, natural-sounding sound signature, great overall SQ and resolution, extremely revealing”
“great comfort, very dynamic transience, AKG signature mids, mostly neutral; quick, clean and tight extending bass, behaved treble, great imagining”

Cons: “not widely available, earcups a bit shallow, unforgiving on poor source files”
“long burn-in and power hungry; if your system is not up to par, the mids will sound sucked out, the treble brittle, and the bass dull”

Guess were all dilusional,and youre right...glad we got that cleared up.