My first forray into the high end market. Confused and need in-ear recommendations.
Sep 10, 2013 at 1:32 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 6

acompli

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Hi. First post here. Might be a bit long, but I want to give the most information I can in exchange for a recommendation since there is a lot of money on the line here!
 
A background... I couldn't be considered an audiophile, but I've played violin, guitar, piano and bass since I was a kid, with a fair deal of programming (mostly Reason) since high school (I'm 31 now), and quite a few extremely lo fi recordings (4 tracks, drum machines, and freeware or borrowed software) under my belt. So I "get" music at an above average level, but nowhere near elite. I just never had the time or attention span to put into it.
 
The best home audio system I've ever had was constructed of bits and pieces from the 80s, acquired at thrift stores, and the best pair of headphones I've ever owned was some $20 Sony earbuds. I grew up pretty poor and have been extremely frugal with practically everything until a substantial career advancement recently.
 
After my cats chewed up my $15 JVCs from Target last week, I've been wrestling with the garbage headphones that came with my Galaxy S4. This made me realize I should invest in a pair of good headphones to match a high end phone, and also to make sure I keep them out of paws' reach.
 
I've been searching high and low and am shocked how many headphones there are at all price points. I'm completely lost. I get gunshy with spending money on anything, so each time I see something at #1 on a top 10 list, I start feeling good about it, but once I read a single negative review I am convinced I shouldn't buy whatever it is. This is where I need help, because the one consistent thing I read about higher end headphones is that it changes your music experience. And I want that.
 
So I'll take your suggestions. A few specifics about what my requirements are.
 
Type: Has to be in-ear. This is a must due to the logistics of my life. I need something I can put in my pocket as I spend several hours each day walking and on public transit. I will also be listening on my S4, primarily with Spotify streaming at 320. I don't bike or work out with music, so that's not a concern. I don't care at all about mics or volume controls, etc. This will also be my first big ticket audio purchase and for the time being will be my primary listening device. I've had to trade off space for location, so having a cramped apartment in a nice Chicago neighborhood pretty much rules out having an awesome home stereo system since my neighbors and I can hear each other blinking. Hopefully this turns me on to the world of quality audio, so this could be a gateway deal.
 
Price: Looking at the $200 to $300 range. I basically want the best in-ear model I can get for under $300. One thing I've noticed is that some older models (Westone 3, for example) are selling at huge discounts from original MSRP, so I've been leaning toward that.
 
Music: Perhaps the most important... if you averaged out ALL the music I listen to, you'd probably end up with XTC (the precise crossroads of my entire collection). I listen to a lot of 60s rock (Kinks, Beatles, American garage and psych, etc.), postpunk and new wave, 90s indie rock/pop and britpop. If you can assure me that The Kinks' Arthur, XTC's Drums and Wires and Radiohead's OK Computer will sound out of this world with this device, I will be sold.
 
Specs: Audio quality is of the utmost importance. Comfort and fit are very important but I will make some sacrifice for sound. Noise isolation would be nice (but probably not to an extreme) I'll take my chances with durability, but a warranty or good build would be good to have just in case. I also like the idea of dual or triple drivers, just because I really love the sound of separated frequencies. I'm not sure what it's worth ultimately, compared to a really good single driver.
 
That should do. Without advice, I'd be leaning toward the Westone 3 (Triple Driver) or Etymonic ER-4P, based on what I've read thus far.
 
Thank you very much in advance for taking the time to read and passing along any advice you may have.
 
Sep 10, 2013 at 1:55 AM Post #2 of 6
I feel ya.  I noticed you mentioned "~I start feeling good about it, but once I read a single negative review I am convinced I shouldn't buy whatever it is."  The fact is that any product, no matter how good it actually is or how good it's hyped up to be, you're going to get at least one negative view.  Nothing's perfect and sound is so subjective.
 
Also, you're all over the map deciding between the W3 and the ER4P, which I've owned.  They sound completely different and one genre can sound sublime and horrific on another.  
 
I suggest you read the following thread from renowned member and contributor, Joker.  Then, make a sound and informed decision. Your ears will thank you, but quite possibly not your wallet.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-295-iems-compared-vsonic-vc1000-added-09-03-13-p-760
 
Also, get one with a good warranty (2 year+) and only buy from authorized dealer if new; if not check out the forsale forums.
 
Sep 10, 2013 at 2:02 AM Post #3 of 6
Probably not a good suggestion, but I will add my 2 cents. Monster Turbine Pro Golds or Pearls. They sound quite good and I have been using them as my daily drivers for over 2 years.
 
My gold's have broken once on me and they gladly sent me a new pair in the mail. The only advantage is that their warranty is lifetime. Mine just broke again due to sweat and I am going to phone in again and ask for another replacement. Since I like bass they suit my needs but they are not super bassy like the beats by dre. There is actually a bit more clarity in the music than with the beats by dre.
 
I also own Westone 3s (not as bassy as the MTPGs) and they are quite good for my music. They are a good choice if you like music with a little kick from bass, but if you are looking for more balanced sound I would consider other options. Remember to buy authorized I recommend Ear Phone Solutions. I have ordered from them in the past (UM3Xs) and they handle things pretty well.
 
If you are international (you stated you received headphones with your Galaxy S4 and I didn't get any with my T-Mobile US S4) check Westone's website for international authorized vendors.
 
Sep 10, 2013 at 9:43 PM Post #4 of 6
  Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha421 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I suggest you read the following thread from renowned member and contributor, Joker.  Then, make a sound and informed decision. Your ears will thank you, but quite possibly not your wallet.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-295-iems-compared-vsonic-vc1000-added-09-03-13-p-760

 
Wow... that is some heavy reading. This is possibly the most thorough and informative thread I have ever seen on any subject on any message board anywhere.
 
I've gotten pretty deep into reading the reviews in my price range. Very objective and lacking in bias or agenda, so this is of huge help as something to temper the extreme reviews (positive or negative) that I see elsewhere. Perhaps more confused now, though, since I'm reading about manufacturers and models I had never heard of after days of reading up on the subject. :)
 
  Probably not a good suggestion, but I will add my 2 cents. Monster Turbine Pro Golds or Pearls. They sound quite good and I have been using them as my daily drivers for over 2 years.
 
My gold's have broken once on me and they gladly sent me a new pair in the mail. The only advantage is that their warranty is lifetime. Mine just broke again due to sweat and I am going to phone in again and ask for another replacement. Since I like bass they suit my needs but they are not super bassy like the beats by dre. There is actually a bit more clarity in the music than with the beats by dre.
 
I also own Westone 3s (not as bassy as the MTPGs) and they are quite good for my music. They are a good choice if you like music with a little kick from bass, but if you are looking for more balanced sound I would consider other options. Remember to buy authorized I recommend Ear Phone Solutions. I have ordered from them in the past (UM3Xs) and they handle things pretty well.
 
If you are international (you stated you received headphones with your Galaxy S4 and I didn't get any with my T-Mobile US S4) check Westone's website for international authorized vendors.

 
I like bass a lot, but I'm not bass crazy, and I don't listen to much music that's intentionally bass-heavy. But I do want strong bass presence. I tend to adjust most music to a scooped middle with a moderate emphasis on bass, increased treble for balance, and tweaks on the mid-lows and mid-highs based on the song. The purpose for me is trying to get the playback to "sound right" and have a presence, not so much to add/subtract/enhance anything. For what it's worth, with home systems I use a dialed back version of the same EQ. Even when I've mixed/mastered my own music I do something similar, though more gradual going into mid and much flatter on the right.
 
This could simply be a consequence of experience with only low grade equipment and poor headphones, where mids to mid-highs sound tinny and hollow, artificially bright, out of place, almost horrific.
 
I think what I'm looking for in terms of sound profile is excellent clarity, as well as good separation and a solid soundstage. But nothing so extreme to the point that it's exhausting or distracting. I'd like a well rounded frequency profile with a slight lean toward bass. This assumes that I will be getting a flat response unlike anything I have ever heard before, in which bass is clearer and more present.
 
I guess a good question would be, will my audial perception graduate with quality drivers to the point I won't need the left-heavy scoop? If not, I may prefer bassy IEMs.
 
RE: S4... Oddly, I also have the T-Mobile US device. Black. Bought it in-store. Came in a woodgrain box with white IEMs. Perhaps it was a minor version difference? I got mine in early June.
 
I will say the IEMs are at least 10 times better than Apple's standard earbuds. These were actually the first IEMs I ever used and it was annoying and even painful at first, but I've gotten used to it. It was only yesterday I learned about the concept of seal, which improved their sound significantly (especially after remembering to re-do the sound adjuster app), but I became accustomed to it within a few hours and now it sounds just as bad.
 
Like 99% of headphones I've owned, lows are very muddy, mids sound like crumpling aluminum foil, highs sound like repetitions of breaking glass.
 
Sep 11, 2013 at 12:09 AM Post #5 of 6
    Quote:
 
Wow... that is some heavy reading. This is possibly the most thorough and informative thread I have ever seen on any subject on any message board anywhere.
 
I've gotten pretty deep into reading the reviews in my price range. Very objective and lacking in bias or agenda, so this is of huge help as something to temper the extreme reviews (positive or negative) that I see elsewhere. Perhaps more confused now, though, since I'm reading about manufacturers and models I had never heard of after days of reading up on the subject. :)
 
 
I like bass a lot, but I'm not bass crazy, and I don't listen to much music that's intentionally bass-heavy. But I do want strong bass presence. I tend to adjust most music to a scooped middle with a moderate emphasis on bass, increased treble for balance, and tweaks on the mid-lows and mid-highs based on the song. The purpose for me is trying to get the playback to "sound right" and have a presence, not so much to add/subtract/enhance anything. For what it's worth, with home systems I use a dialed back version of the same EQ. Even when I've mixed/mastered my own music I do something similar, though more gradual going into mid and much flatter on the right.
 
This could simply be a consequence of experience with only low grade equipment and poor headphones, where mids to mid-highs sound tinny and hollow, artificially bright, out of place, almost horrific.
 
I think what I'm looking for in terms of sound profile is excellent clarity, as well as good separation and a solid soundstage. But nothing so extreme to the point that it's exhausting or distracting. I'd like a well rounded frequency profile with a slight lean toward bass. This assumes that I will be getting a flat response unlike anything I have ever heard before, in which bass is clearer and more present.
 
I guess a good question would be, will my audial perception graduate with quality drivers to the point I won't need the left-heavy scoop? If not, I may prefer bassy IEMs.
 
RE: S4... Oddly, I also have the T-Mobile US device. Black. Bought it in-store. Came in a woodgrain box with white IEMs. Perhaps it was a minor version difference? I got mine in early June.
 
I will say the IEMs are at least 10 times better than Apple's standard earbuds. These were actually the first IEMs I ever used and it was annoying and even painful at first, but I've gotten used to it. It was only yesterday I learned about the concept of seal, which improved their sound significantly (especially after remembering to re-do the sound adjuster app), but I became accustomed to it within a few hours and now it sounds just as bad.
 
Like 99% of headphones I've owned, lows are very muddy, mids sound like crumpling aluminum foil, highs sound like repetitions of breaking glass.

For your audial perception I cannot really say since everybody is different, but I still like some boom to the bass and that feeling that makes your spine tingle when the lows hit. My first "expensive" IEM purchase was a pair of beats by Dre. It was also when I started to actually listen to music on an iPod touch. I had previously owned some Sony in ear buds but decided to save up my Christmas money (I'm 20 now so I was about 15-16 at the time) for something good. The beats tour were a horrible experience to be honest they sounded half decent but there were some songs where the bass was clearly over powered and it muddled out the instrumental track and the vocals. As for their build quality, the fancy "patented" flat cable cracked in multiple places and I had to have two replacements. The last pair of beats broke and the warranty ran out so I left them aside and searched for others.
 
That was when I actually joined the forums searching for the right headphones. Lo and behold I found the monster turbine pro golds (without the in line mic since they all tend to break) and they were perfect. The bass response was incredible and they maintained good clarity on the tracks where the beats tour failed to deliver. The sound is very good and of course, as I mentioned before, they have a lifetime warranty that can't be beat. If you like their simple design of just sticking them in your ear it will definitely work out for you, but if you don't like bass emphasis I would probably suggest the monster turbine pro coppers since they deliver a more balanced sound. Sorry about the monster pearls, I actually meant to type in copper but ended up with pearls haha.
 
As for Westone 3s, I was somewhat unimpressed by them at first and I believe that was due to the comply tips. Today I received the Westone Star tips (their new silicone tips) in the mail and to my amazement they popped into my ear like my golds. Immediately they sounded much better and worth the price tag. The bass was as deep if not deeper than my monsters and they were definitely clearer sounding than the monsters. There is one song I listen to that the bass goes deep, "I wanna love you" by Akon and the Westone 3s definitely deliver more than the monsters. I can't wait to try the star tips on my Westone UM3Xs. If you want Westone I would go for the 3 but I'll have to get back to you on the UM3Xs.
 
Funny you mentioned that about the S4. I checked the boxes, turns out we all had the headphones in the box haha.
 
As a reply to your last line there are diamonds in the rough for the under $100 tier that you should look at if you want to stay within that budget. Personally, I haven't tried any of those but you can consult Joker's guide. Once you get to the higher tiers ($200-300) things get better. The Westone 3s are pretty high up there at $350 but they are most definitely worth it. They are, however, about $240 on Amazon currently (Ships from and sold by Amazon.com in case you were wondering who the vendor was). Currently they are out of stock at Earphone Solutions, which is showing them for $350. I recommend trying out the Star tips (get them from Earphone Solutions I don't think I saw any trustworthy vendors on Amazon) they might produce more desirable results from IEMs that you're about to drop a monthly car payment on. 
 
Sep 13, 2013 at 8:22 PM Post #6 of 6
Hey, thanks for all the advice. It certainly helped point me in the right direction, both with beginner basics and with giving me a starting point to explore my options based on bass preferences.
 
The Monster Gold and Coppers both sound appealing, but I think they're just a tad more bass focused than I ideally want, and don't appear to be noteworthy for clarity and depth. I'm getting the impression that what I'm looking for may be a multi BA and slightly higher priced solution... I'm probably willing to crack $300 if I have to.
 
The W3 is still in the running. The reviews describe the bass the way I like it... full, deep, complex, plus with well fleshed out mids and highs. If the fitting is difficult, that scares me a bit though. I'm also unsure how well I'll get used to over-the-ear, but from the looks of it I may have no choice with a lot of these. Sibilance is a concern for me, and so is assuming my EQ preferences with garbage equipment will remain when I upgrade to a permanently fixed version of it.
 
Also considering the GR07BE (but will be seeking more input on dynamic vs. BA first), the DBA-02 (seems like a well rounded middle ground of all the things I want without sacrificing too much of any one thing... depends on what I learn about adjusting to frequency balance on quality headphones.
 
Thanks again!
 

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