Hi DaveK1977,
Glad to read your enthusiasm in your ESHS design!
A really satisfying hobby.
David.
Glad to read your enthusiasm in your ESHS design!
A really satisfying hobby.
David.
My DIY electrostatic headphones
- Thread starter chinsettawong
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100VoltTube
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Hi DaveK1977
Cool headphones. What seller cut those stators for you? I'm a bit interested in getting stators the same way.
To everyone:
What are the best stator materials? I thought that flexibility was the main factor in choosing material, but after looking it up, I realized that steel (and aluminium) is many times more rigid based on Young's modus than FR4, and yet FR4 is more popular and common in stators. Is this purely due to the ease of machining, or is it because of metals' tenancy to resonate? Or am I missing something?
Cool headphones. What seller cut those stators for you? I'm a bit interested in getting stators the same way.
To everyone:
What are the best stator materials? I thought that flexibility was the main factor in choosing material, but after looking it up, I realized that steel (and aluminium) is many times more rigid based on Young's modus than FR4, and yet FR4 is more popular and common in stators. Is this purely due to the ease of machining, or is it because of metals' tenancy to resonate? Or am I missing something?
DaveK1977
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The seller's name is redplanet22. He was easy to work with, it's just that the discs were a little larger than 85mm, probably close to 1.5mm too big, though I have not measured it exactly. If you're asking him to cut for you, use Imperial units.
Hi 100VoltTube,
That is a good question. My steel stators are 0.8mm thin and still a bit more rigid than my 1mm FR4 stators.
The 1mm FR4 is never-the-less rigid enough and very easy to cut, manipulate into the required cutouts. It is also easy to drill hole patterns and sizes to your requirements.
FR4 also benifits from the Fibreglass insulation protecting the listener from coming in contact with the high voltages.
I have tried 0.5mm FR4 for stators which was not rigid enough!
David.
That is a good question. My steel stators are 0.8mm thin and still a bit more rigid than my 1mm FR4 stators.
The 1mm FR4 is never-the-less rigid enough and very easy to cut, manipulate into the required cutouts. It is also easy to drill hole patterns and sizes to your requirements.
FR4 also benifits from the Fibreglass insulation protecting the listener from coming in contact with the high voltages.
I have tried 0.5mm FR4 for stators which was not rigid enough!
David.
Hi DaveK1977,
This may sound like an intrusive question, but, how much would the ebay seller 'redplanet22' charge for supply and bespoke cutting of the perforated steel?
The sizes that he cuts may be dictated by the hole punches he has available, and the hole punches he has may be in imperial sizes, so in mm you get the closest he has got, possibly he used 3 3/8" (85.725mm)?
Do the edges come nicely finished or do they require sanding?
David.
This may sound like an intrusive question, but, how much would the ebay seller 'redplanet22' charge for supply and bespoke cutting of the perforated steel?
The sizes that he cuts may be dictated by the hole punches he has available, and the hole punches he has may be in imperial sizes, so in mm you get the closest he has got, possibly he used 3 3/8" (85.725mm)?
Do the edges come nicely finished or do they require sanding?
David.
DaveK1977
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No problem. I did some sanding on the edges because they were sharp, but nothing drastic. Not all of them were super flat, either, but I was able to tweak around on them enough to use all of them. You're probably correct about how they were cut. It was about $35 for 12 discs. Because of the experimental nature of it, and the fact that some of them simply don't work when put together, having enough to make 6 drivers makes it easier to find two that match. Also, I can "rebuild" one in just a few minutes with a pocket knife, I just have to be careful not to bend them. I'm planning on assembling those this weekend, but the pair that I made Sunday I really didn't expect to work this well, so it's kind of a whim that I put them together to listen, which I did for over an hour last night. No shock. I forgot to answer Wachara: they're powered right now by a Koss E90.
chinsettawong
Headphoneus Supremus
The Koss E90 won't be able to drive your headphones well. Koss's bias voltage is too low for your 1.1 mm spacer headphones.
DaveK1977
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They're no longer so quiet that they have to be turned all the way up. I switched sources from my phone to my SACD player, which must have a hotter output. They have similar sound signatures, but one side is louder than the other. The one on the right definitely has something in it, but it's only audible at a few frequencies. It's very encouraging because I think that when I make the other 5 drivers all in one shot, I have a pretty good chance of two of them matching pretty well.
I spent this weekend having a go at an Orpheus clone with a difference based on the question that 100VoltTube asked about why not use steel stators, so I have.
I cut elongated octagonal cutouts from 0.8mm thick steel perforated with 2mm holes, giving approx. 51% open space. This is the same perforated steel I have used before on my early panels. These were cut for an oval panel since all my previous headphones have had round panels.
Then, the spacers were CNC'ed from 1.6mm FR4, pocketed out to 0.6mm recess for the octagonal steel stator.
Now the bad bit..... and I guess why FR4 stators are easier to work with. The steel after cutting is NOT perfectly flat, similar to DaveK1977's comments. I cut the panels with a Jig saw, not CNC, and for spacers recess as thin as 0.6mm, just NOT flat enough for me to continue along this idea!
I could spend more time on this later, but for now I will stick to FR4.
I cut elongated octagonal cutouts from 0.8mm thick steel perforated with 2mm holes, giving approx. 51% open space. This is the same perforated steel I have used before on my early panels. These were cut for an oval panel since all my previous headphones have had round panels.
Then, the spacers were CNC'ed from 1.6mm FR4, pocketed out to 0.6mm recess for the octagonal steel stator.
Now the bad bit..... and I guess why FR4 stators are easier to work with. The steel after cutting is NOT perfectly flat, similar to DaveK1977's comments. I cut the panels with a Jig saw, not CNC, and for spacers recess as thin as 0.6mm, just NOT flat enough for me to continue along this idea!
I could spend more time on this later, but for now I will stick to FR4.
DaveK1977
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If you want to know what mine are a clone of, I'll tell you what my inspirations were to make what I have:
1. My Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pros plugged into my Schiit Vali is as good as it gets to me so far. That sounds great and is extremely comfortable. I love the way Beyer's grey velour feels, their earcups are a nice size to me, and their pad designs excellent. I didn't want to tear one of those apart as they even cost too much broken to do this to, but it's designed so well as to be an excellent platform. I took apart a cup doing my detachable cable mod to them, and I was impressed with how serviceable it is. The Superlux HD-330 is a copy and is cheap enough to rip apart. I had to do considerable reworking of metal pieces to make it fit like a real Beyer.
2. I saw how Martin Logan builds speakers on How It's Made. I'm sorry in advance if I'm about to step on toes. They showed their process well enough for a a tabletop copy of how they make speakers translates to a passable headphone driver. They actually have huge precision, which is the harder part, but their design shows how to make an electrostatic driver simply and cheaply. It's so elegant in its simplicity that I don't understand why that isn't for sale everywhere so the price can come down. They've made it good, safe, and easy to have,
3. Acquiring enough bits and pieces of actual equipment to use stuff that's safe and flexible. That means having weird watches in eBay for stuff from Koss or Stax. Basically tracking down LKQ (Like Kind & Quality) of plastic film, figuring out what to coat with since Swash isn't a common brand here, etc. I've got stuff to make it work, but I still definitely want a pair of the real thing.
1. My Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pros plugged into my Schiit Vali is as good as it gets to me so far. That sounds great and is extremely comfortable. I love the way Beyer's grey velour feels, their earcups are a nice size to me, and their pad designs excellent. I didn't want to tear one of those apart as they even cost too much broken to do this to, but it's designed so well as to be an excellent platform. I took apart a cup doing my detachable cable mod to them, and I was impressed with how serviceable it is. The Superlux HD-330 is a copy and is cheap enough to rip apart. I had to do considerable reworking of metal pieces to make it fit like a real Beyer.
2. I saw how Martin Logan builds speakers on How It's Made. I'm sorry in advance if I'm about to step on toes. They showed their process well enough for a a tabletop copy of how they make speakers translates to a passable headphone driver. They actually have huge precision, which is the harder part, but their design shows how to make an electrostatic driver simply and cheaply. It's so elegant in its simplicity that I don't understand why that isn't for sale everywhere so the price can come down. They've made it good, safe, and easy to have,
3. Acquiring enough bits and pieces of actual equipment to use stuff that's safe and flexible. That means having weird watches in eBay for stuff from Koss or Stax. Basically tracking down LKQ (Like Kind & Quality) of plastic film, figuring out what to coat with since Swash isn't a common brand here, etc. I've got stuff to make it work, but I still definitely want a pair of the real thing.
100VoltTube
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If you want to put your drivers in a real Beyer headphone structure, you can make one out of spare parts. Beyer sells some on their website, and this website has a ton of parts.
Even though I try to make ALL items in my headphones myself, links such as 100VoltTube's link to Beyer spare parts is an excellent source of parts for DIY'ers.
Links like this can make a big difference to people who wish to make an ESHS but cannot source various parts such as ear cushions and head bands etc. It would be great if we could produce a list of all current suppliers like this, so that anyone can easily source parts they are struggling with.
Also to include links to suppliers (inc. ebay sellers) for example Stax socket pins, rigid plastic sheet for cutting, FR4 in 0.5mm and 1.0mm and Mylar.....
I do not mind compiling and updating a list to keep it current, but I would need to know all the various suppliers from existing ESHS DIY'ers; YOU.
David.
Links like this can make a big difference to people who wish to make an ESHS but cannot source various parts such as ear cushions and head bands etc. It would be great if we could produce a list of all current suppliers like this, so that anyone can easily source parts they are struggling with.
Also to include links to suppliers (inc. ebay sellers) for example Stax socket pins, rigid plastic sheet for cutting, FR4 in 0.5mm and 1.0mm and Mylar.....
I do not mind compiling and updating a list to keep it current, but I would need to know all the various suppliers from existing ESHS DIY'ers; YOU.
David.
So far only one person has responded to my idea of a 'diy suppliers list' and that was with reputation.
If anyone still thinks it is a good idea to proceed, then you can send me the web link(s) as a personal message within Head-Fi or in general reply in this thread.
If no one responds then I will assume that this is something that people don't want.
If anyone still thinks it is a good idea to proceed, then you can send me the web link(s) as a personal message within Head-Fi or in general reply in this thread.
If no one responds then I will assume that this is something that people don't want.
chinsettawong
Headphoneus Supremus
Hi David,
I like your idea, and I appreciate your taking the effort to do this. I'm sure it will be a great help to a lot of people.
However, as how this thread works, whatever you do and post here today will be buried in hundreds of pages in years to come. And people who do not read the whole thread will ask the same questions again and again. What could we do to avoid that?
Wachara
I like your idea, and I appreciate your taking the effort to do this. I'm sure it will be a great help to a lot of people.
However, as how this thread works, whatever you do and post here today will be buried in hundreds of pages in years to come. And people who do not read the whole thread will ask the same questions again and again. What could we do to avoid that?
Wachara
Thanks Julez and Wachara,
Julez: Thanks for the list of links, that's a huge start. I will try to compile a list in various 'sections' of ESHS panel design when there are lots in the bigger list.
Wachara: I appreciate what you say about a post getting lost in the history of a thread. I have read ALL posts in the 158 pages of this thread, but I must admit I spend ages looking back through the pages to find the one post I am looking for.
To start with, a general small starter list can be posted within this thread, then if it gets big, possibly start a new thread with the list as the thread start, and just edit this post as new info comes in or old info gets updated. Any comments could tag on the end, but the main one as post number one contains the up to date info?
Julez: Thanks for the list of links, that's a huge start. I will try to compile a list in various 'sections' of ESHS panel design when there are lots in the bigger list.
Wachara: I appreciate what you say about a post getting lost in the history of a thread. I have read ALL posts in the 158 pages of this thread, but I must admit I spend ages looking back through the pages to find the one post I am looking for.
To start with, a general small starter list can be posted within this thread, then if it gets big, possibly start a new thread with the list as the thread start, and just edit this post as new info comes in or old info gets updated. Any comments could tag on the end, but the main one as post number one contains the up to date info?
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