[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvw /img/forum/go_quote.gif No need to spend $50K or $2K for the cable. Here's the chip that will do the job. http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDat.../CS4350_F1.pdf

That would be great if the dynamic range were as wide as the PCM1794. A lot of people listen to audio higher than redbook. But it looks like a promising chip.

 

[OverlordXenu]

Whoop whoop whoop.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif OverlordXenu, please edit your post: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/do...forums-227350/

His post does not violate that proscription: "We do not engage in the discussion of double-blind testing (DBT) of cables on this site."

That said, Xenu is reaching a conclusion that is not supported by the study, and the whole issue is not relevant to the topic of this thread.

 

[Sovkiller]

.

 

[immtbiker]

Febs, the sticky clearly states that any mention of DBT testing is not allowed and in OverlordXenu's post it refers to DBT testing of SACD vs. Redbook no matter what the conclusion is, it was mentioned and linked.

I could have deleted the post, but instead, I politely asked him to edit it, and once it was done, I would have removed my post.

 

[hciman77]

...

 

[immtbiker]

True, and I have PM'd Elrod-Tom for clarification of this because it also states that it is for the cable forum and other forums. It also states:

We do this not because DBT is or is not an legitimate means for decision-making. Rather, in our experience we find that these discussions repeatedly break down rather quickly into nasty circular arguments by competing camps of true believers. We've come to the conclusion that there's no particularly worthwhile end to be served by this line of discussion, and as such we're asking that the membership not engage in it.

Thanks...

Also, if you look up at the top of the page ^ you will see the name of this forum includes:

Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum)

DBT-Forum! We are in this forum, are we not?

If I am wrong, I will gladly delete my comment and you guys can duke it out.

 

[jp11801]

just out of curiousity Does Matt Carter=Acoustic Chef for sure?

BTW hasn't this thread run it's usefull course at this point having been rerailed to links to a DBT study that the poster apparently did not even read, had he he would have seen his conclusion was not even close to definative.

People all cables have significant mark up and in relation to the actual components in your system do not provide the same dollar for dollar improvement a speaker, headphone, source, amp can provide. But once you have all the peices in place then playing with cables can be a effective way to complete the sound of your system.
Also just for #$%^s and giggles there is no nuetral, it's a term I often refer to for lack of a better word but everything in the audio chain puts it's handprint on the sound (some more audible than others).

Yes this cable reeks of mediocre construction and parts, all you Marxists (BTW I love all my Marxist brothers and Sisters) out there don't get it we live in a market economy. Items are worth what people pay for them not a penny more or less. Do you think the speakers you bought don't have a 100% markup at MSRP? ALso the $500 dollar headphones you just bought also have the same markup (for the most part). I worked in reatil in the 80s and paid landed cost (cost plus supply chain costs) for any item I wanted in the store and my AKGS were about half of retail.

I can not for the life of me understand why cables makers are singled out in this way. Most things are overpriced based on raw cost of components. Look at most of the boutique amps we buy they are marked up to nosebleeding propotions very few mind though. One thing that is certain most of the people equate price with quality and often overlook excellent debateably better products at lower costs simply due to the mental effect of price.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Why does this forum feel its necessary to censor the audio "skeptics" true ace in the pocket? DBT, which is essentially the only true means of testing audio equipment. Because it makes cable believers mad? Unbelievable. Nonsensical "OMG THIS CABLE IS AMAZING, THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY, THE BACKGROUND IS REALLY BLACK" makes me pretty mad.

That said, I will not continue to travel further down the path speaking about digital, because the $2000 digital cable isn't going to solve the limitations of SP/DIF, it isn't going to do anything but transmit the same old digital signal to your DAC. Also, this thread was more dealing with the shoddy construction of Power 3 cables.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes this cable reeks of mediocre construction and parts, all you Marxists (BTW I love all my Marxist brothers and Sisters) out there don't get it we live in a market economy. Items are worth what people pay for them not a penny more or less. Do you think the speakers you bought don't have a 100% markup at MSRP? ALso the $500 dollar headphones you just bought also have the same markup (for the most part). I worked in reatil in the 80s and paid landed cost (cost plus supply chain costs) for any item I wanted in the store and my AKGS were about half of retail.

At least my headphones, CD player, DAC, etc etc were all built well, and weren't straight up lied about in the marketing department. The markups were also more justified given these companies actually perform R&D and have other justified expenses. (At least more justified than VD's expenses, considering they don't actually perform real R&D).

 

[hciman77]

...

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least my headphones, CD player, DAC, etc etc were all built well, and weren't straight up lied about in the marketing department. The markups were also more justified given these companies actually perform R&D and have other justified expenses. (At least more justified than VD's expenses, considering they don't actually perform real R&D).

this is not universally true as I believe I made clear in my post. Do you really think that most of the cottage industry amp makers perform wjatever you consider to be actual R&D, some do most may not. Unless you call trial and error at the customer expense R&D. Also claiming that VD does not do real R&D is a claim you need to qualify. Do they have an R&D group and does that group do research, if so they they do R&D, to better set the standard for our converstaion Wiki refers to R&D as "creative work undertaken on a systematic basis in order to increase the stock of knowledge, including knowledge of man, culture and society, and the use of this stock of knowledge to devise new applications". They may very well do that for all you know?? They may do more or less of it than most amp makers here again we do not really know.
Also yes if you buy components that are made by either large consumer audio companies or companies that market to musicians yes the profit margins are slightly thinner but I have seen 50%-100% MU on amps, speakers and sources in midfi shops. If you were to buy from a high end boutique manufacter then in most cases you are paying a higher MU, at least that has been my experience.

I do agree with your though that we as a community should refrain from statements like "night and day difference..." most cables and for that matter sources offer an incremental difference at least to these ears.

 

[gotchaforce]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is not universally true as I believe I made clear in my post. Do you really think that most of the cottage industry amp makers perform wjatever you consider to be actual R&D, some do most may not. Unless you call trial and error at the customer expense R&D. Also claiming that VD does not do real R&D is a claim you need to qualify. Do they have an R&D group and does that group do research, if so they they do R&D, to better set the standard for our converstaion Wiki refers to R&D as "creative work undertaken on a systematic basis in order to increase the stock of knowledge, including knowledge of man, culture and society, and the use of this stock of knowledge to devise new applications". They may very well do that for all you know?? They may do more or less of it than most amp makers here again we do not really know. Also yes if you buy components that are made by either large consumer audio companies or companies that market to musicians yes the profit margins are slightly thinner but I have seen 50%-100% MU on amps, speakers and sources in midfi shops. If you were to buy from a high end boutique manufacter then in most cases you are paying a higher MU, at least that has been my experience. I do agree with your though that we as a community should refrain from statements like "night and day difference..." most cables and for that matter sources offer an incremental difference at least to these ears.

Who are the cottage industry amp makers? Theres some small companies out there that build amps on existing technology, but companies like plinius, theta, NAD, krell, etc etc all have R&D thats pretty extensive

 

[dvw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by draudio /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, okay, some answers. You have to realize that I'm gonna feel a lot like a Dad finally explaining to his son that there ain't no Santa. That broken hearted lip droopin' response is likely what I'm gonna get, because the truth ain't nearly as fun as the hype and the ********. So, what's so damn neat? I was hoping you would realize that this cable has nothing extraordinary to it with exception of those little tiny beads that are all over your house by now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also claiming that VD does not do real R&D is a claim you need to qualify.

You can find the full post of draudio in this thread. Basically, there is no speed of light, electron acceleration etc.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchaforce /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who are the cottage industry amp makers? Theres some small companies out there that build amps on existing technology, but companies like plinius, theta, NAD, krell, etc etc all have R&D thats pretty extensive

agreed and thanks for the clarification, yes the above listed companies are large and without a doubt have a qualified R&D staff.

I was speaking in the context of ampbuilders in our community, many are 1 to a just a few person operations that do not have the resources for an R&D staff.