My bad experience with the Shanling T-300 (mini-rant)

[immtbiker]

I decided to demo the Shanling T-300 CD player from AudioAdvisor, who was offering a 30 day money back guarantee, and compare it to the Meridian G08. Keep in mind that although I think that the Shanling is a crowning acheivement in design (although many would disagree), it is $1200 more than the Meridian, at the new lower price of $4995, down from $7k MSRP, and I hoped that it would be a step above the Meridian (especially with the tubes, external power supply, Philips "King of the Rocker" Transport, and some of the best DACs that Burr Brown makes).
I want to start off by saying that the staff at AudioAdvisor, especially sales, had nothing to do with the problem, and they were quite accomodating in remedying the situation, trying to do right by the customer.
I let the unit run for 125 hours, and then started to really listen. But there was a problem. If I were to cue a track, when the unit wasn't running, let's say scroll up to track 7, and then hit play, there would be a loud static noise and then the song would start up slow and eventually catch up. This also happened if I was already playing, let's say track 2 and tried to jump to track 5.
At first when I told AA about the problem, they looked at me (not literally...over the phone), like I had 2 heads. when I explained to them, that I had a degree in electrical engineering, and was a member of the world reknowned Head-Fi, they started to listen. Actually, when I played the sound for Tom (sales) over the phone, then they could understand what I was talking about.

Coincidently, Phil Gold, a reviewer for "Enjoy the Music" had the same problem with his unit during his review.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superio...lingcdt300.htm

I asked our good friend in the Cayman's if he had the same problem, he stress tested his for quite a few hours, and he did not have the problem.
AA called Roy Hall, who imported the units, and found out that this was a known problem on the T-100 units, and the T-300 units and there is a known fix for it.
Well gee, you would think for $4 grand they would make sure to modify all the units (only 30 in the US), and not act like ostritches, and hope the problem would never surface, or people wouldn'y complain.
It was as simlple as swapping out a 3.3K resistor for a 2.7K so that the relay wouldn't kick on so early...or so I'm told.
Anyway, I was willing to bite the bullet and ship it to Music Hall at my time and expense, and although AA refunded me my shipping costs, I feel, for that much money, they could have offered me a cheap PC or something to make up for my woes, especially since it was a trial. Never crossed their mind.
I was promised by Roy Hall's right hand man, whose name I will leave out, because he also tried to remedy the situation, and promised me a 2 day turn around time.
I waited 10 days, and called up Music Hall, and at first they told me there was a 2-3 week turnaround time, then after telling the supervisor my situation and promises, he put me on the phone with the tech.
The tech (another name that I'll leave out), told me that upon receipt, that the external power supply was dead, without any signs of physical damage, and was waiting for a new one, or schematics, because (he "had never touched one of these in his life"...can you say authorized service center?).
Anyway...I called AA and asked for a refund, which they gave me quite quickly.
BTW -in a 10 hour comparison listening session vs. the G08, I have to say that they both have their plus and minuses, but they are definitely in the same league...but there is that $1200 price difference...but there is that coolness factor (if you like it).
I have heard that this same problem occurs on some T-100 units, which is interesting because, they are totally different, and have different transports.

Shanling is off my list of things to buy!!!

 

[Jon L]

The reviewer does say, "The biggest improvement was upgrading the stock Electro Harmonic 6922 Gold Pin tubes to Valvo E88CC Red Label tubes from Holland." Did you have a chance to roll some tubes in T300?

Having listened to T300, I will say it's a nice-sounding player, but certainly it ain't no DCC2, or even Dodson 218..

I almost think they should have gone with pure SS discrete output stage instead of tubes with T300.

 

[pearle]

Ow! Definitely not a good experience. Thanks for sharing it. I have been looking into the Shanlings as a possible buy.

 

[immtbiker]

I was going to try rolling different tubes, although Shanling said the EH gold pin tubes yielded the best results, out of all they tried, including cryogenically treated tubes made in China. The unit broke so fast, that I didn't have a chance!

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Delays? You cancelled because of delays? When was the last time you weren't quoted an (overly) optimistic deadline? Personally, I think you should have followed through 'til they gave you a good unit.

Don't get me wrong, they could have handled it better -- they could have offered a more realistic initial time estimate, they could have contacted you immediately (if the manager was tracking, he probably would have -- so he should have tracked), any number of thing to have handled the situation better.

But...it's about a piece of gear. If you seriously want to give the gear a chance to shine (and why wouldn't you), you should have given them the chance to fix it.

And why would they give you a cheap PC?

[size=xx-small]I suspect you meant IC, but had to tease...[/size]

 

[immtbiker]

No, I was looking for a cheap PC since it seems they are in bed with PS Audio, I figured it would be no skin off their back.
I think you misunderstood me, Peter. It wasn't the overly optimistic deadline that drew the deal to a close. It was the fact that there was a known problem with a $7000.00 unit, and that Shanling put the responsibility on the consumer to have it fixed after selling it to me.
Even with that, I was still willing to be a good electronics guy (I fix stuff all day, so I have a high threshold for breakage, even with new stuff). But when the external supply was dead after 3 weeks of play, I decided that QC problems were not going to be my responsibility.
Honestly, if the Shanling sounded much better than the Meridian, then I probably still would have kept it, and sold the G08 to help fund the purchase.
I did give it a chance to shine BTW, after breaking it in for approx. 125 hours, I did long listening comparisons to the Esoteric and the Meridian, for 3 weeks, before sending it back and in all honesty, I really wanted the T-300 to win. I like the techology that went into the design of the unit, I think it's a real class act. I had some help from 2 lovers of music, in some of my listening comparison's too. Interesting that the review, used the same source (G08) to compare it to...I found that freaky..

All in all, it wasn't worth the money or time to nurse it back to health.

 

[immtbiker]

Also...I forgot to mention...when they told me there was a 2-3 week lag time, the Music Hall gentleman that made me the 2 day turnaround time, kept his promise, it's just that the supervisor who answered the phone at "The Service Bench" wasn't aware of my incident, and didn't realize that the unit was looked at, right away, but with the dead PS, his tech couldn't start the modification.

 

[Wmcmanus]

All of this is rather interesting, Aaron. I knew that you had problems with your T300 (per our PM exchange) but not all of the details.

Thankfully, mine works perfectly, and in my system and for my tastes both in terms of sonics and cosmetics, I think it's about the best thing ever invented since sliced cheese!

The guy I sold my old T100 to had the same sort of problem with it that you are describing with the T300. Apparently, he used the remote control a lot in his listening sessions and would skip to this song or that, and the T100 would skip the first couple of notes in the song that he skipped to. It was never a problem for me and something that I was totally unaware of when I sold the unit because I rarely, if ever, used the remote. I pretty much put a disc in a press play on the player itself, and then listen straight through. Oh well, so I had to refund $200 off of the sales price to him so that he could get the glitch fixed. No biggie.

But back to the T300, I've had no problems with it at all, and will just keep my fingers crossed. There is no G08 or Esoteric in sight either, so it's clearly the King of the playground here. When I get my Denon 5910 with the APL Master Clock Regenerator mod, I'll do some comparisons, but my intention is to use that universal player for my DVD, SACD and DVD-A needs and the T300 for redbook, unless my ears inform my otherwise.

 

[euclid]

was there any discussion if the 3week repair period was eating into your 30 day trail period? maybe they were just stalling so you would be stuck with the repaired player either way. dead powersupply sounds like a shady excuse to me.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker No, I was looking for a cheap PC since it seems they are in bed with PS Audio, I figured it would be no skin off their back.

I misunderstood. To me: PC == personal computer; you meant: PC == power conditioner. Quote:

I think you misunderstood me, Peter. It wasn't the overly optimistic deadline that drew the deal to a close. It was the fact that there was a known problem with a $7000.00 unit, and that Shanling put the responsibility on the consumer to have it fixed after selling it to me.

The only reason I thought it was the former (or rather, a variant on the former) is because of the timing of the request for a refund. It seemed that the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were, was the lies/misunderstanding/miscommunication/whatever about the time it would take to fix. It seemed that initially, you were willing to get it fixed, albeit unhappily, that you had to do so (and rightly so!).

But (if I understand you correctly now) perhaps that was the bigger straw, and the camel's back was well nigh beyond repair, and that last straw was minor, that's just when the camel kicked the proverbial bucket (to mix metaphors). But it was really the realization of that initial straw that caused you to pull the plug on said camel. It just came later.

Do I understand you correctly now?

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid was there any discussion if the 3week repair period was eating into your 30 day trail period? maybe they were just stalling so you would be stuck with the repaired player either way. dead powersupply sounds like a shady excuse to me.

Actually, Audio Advisor said they would extend my money back guarantee, another 30 days, so they were just trying to keep a high dollar sale active, not being deceptive. They were very helpful. Again, I don't blame AA for any of this.

Chalky, PC = powercord....powercord, dagnabbit, silly rabbit. I was looking for a small gesture of good will...nothing expensive. I am not a greedy man. And in response to your analagy...there were just too many straws, large or small.